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Old 08-22-2012, 07:06 PM
 
10,839 posts, read 14,743,535 times
Reputation: 7874

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glucorious View Post
You don't understand, huh? I forgot too add that they secretly execute people, the "trials" last a whooping day, verdict handed down the same day. They execute people like crazy. China has absolutely no regard for human rights or human dignity. China's human rights abuses are well known and I don't have to list them here. If I did, I'd busy listing them until tomorrow. It's not a matter if if, but only a matter of time until it collapses.
well, is the US any better when it randomly attacked other nations and killed thousands of innocent civilians just because those countries don't listen to them?

wait, those are not Americans so we don't care whether they are alive or dead.

China has a lot of human rights issues, but it is improving. People nowadays can criticize the government pretty easily with no penalty, something completely unimaginable a few decades ago.

It is a poor country with a per capita GDP much less than Mexico's. You can't expect it to become all advanced in all aspects overnight.

I think the biggest advantage of China is that it doesn't have millions of Jesus believers. so in the long run, this country is more likely to progress than the USA.
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Old 08-22-2012, 07:13 PM
 
508 posts, read 891,034 times
Reputation: 232
The People's Republic of China is in the midst of a "bubble." Google "Jim Chanos."
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Old 08-22-2012, 07:18 PM
 
10,839 posts, read 14,743,535 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post

I don't think they fully appreciate that there is only one planet Earth and it would take a dozen of them to support China, India, and the US living the average US consumerist lifestyle.
I liked what you said until this sentence.

So the planet's resources are limited. Why do China and India have to make the sacrifices, save the energy so that Americans can squander? They don't fully appreciate the fact we have one planet earth? Do you think US and Canada and Australia fully appreciate that? Do you know an average American consumes about 20X the energy and resources a Chinese person does?

The Europeans as rich countries too, but are doing so much better. Americans are the worst when it comes to energy waste. Do people really have to live their 3000 sf huge mansions with 4 people? Do they really have to drive 2 hours a day to work? Do they really need to heat their home to 85 degrees in the winter and cool at 65 degrees in the summer?

No, not everyone can afford to live a US lifestyle, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to do so. Why not? Since America seems to think it is some sort of model for the world, don't expect people to quit wanting to consume more when the US is the leader so far ahead, right.

We have only one Earth, and we should all do something to save it. Expecting developing countries to consume less while the US can maintain their extravagant lifestyle unseen anywhere else, that's pure selfish.
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Old 08-22-2012, 07:24 PM
 
10,839 posts, read 14,743,535 times
Reputation: 7874
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayTwila View Post
The People's Republic of China is in the midst of a "bubble." Google "Jim Chanos."
China today is quite different from Japan in the 1980s. Fundamentally different. Japan never stood a chance to take over the US as the largest economy, China does and it is fast approaching.

There are property bubbles in coastal cities, true. But it is completely unrealistic to expect China to collapse any time soon. For China to surpass US in terms gross economy is a matter of years, although it will never enjoy the same life quality the Americans are enjoying today.

Countries are more interrelated than ever now. If China really goes down, it is more bad news than good for the US and Europe. Where do you think the profit of GM and Ford etc come from.

Speaking of bubbles, I guess America has sufficient lessons, it just never really learns from them.
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Old 08-23-2012, 06:02 AM
 
10,839 posts, read 14,743,535 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperPunchKick View Post

Either way, thanks for turning this into another america vs thread.
I am sorry for that. However, looking at the title, this thread can easily be turn into another China-bashing/human rights criticize one as well.

I feel disgusted every time western countries judge human rights in developing countries, after all the years of invading, robbing, stealing, killing and slaving. Just because one stopped doing so doesn't mean he gets the moral high ground to judge others now.

Last edited by botticelli; 08-23-2012 at 07:14 AM..
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Old 08-23-2012, 06:27 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,763 posts, read 58,180,906 times
Reputation: 46265
I'm in China today, and have lived and worked in many Asia / Europeon countries.

China has done amazingly well in the last couple decades, considering the HUGE challenges. People are great and I have always enjoyed Chinese and their smiles and humor. Plenty of bridges to cross, and PROBABLY the Gov stands the biggest chance of getting it wrong (as does the USA). Chinese people definately have less influence on Gov, But USA residents have far less inquisitiveness / diligence / (informed voter) contribution to what would REQUIRE such to succeed. USA has given up a lot of credibility / leadership in international circles... The truth is OUT

Chinese are strategists. They proabably will do well, tho NOT at the rate of past 20 yrs. THEY had their growth spurt, and I hoped they BANKED some benefits (in somewhere besides the USA) Which, of course (as Strategists...) they have.

WE (USA) would do well to consider more of what CHINA has accomplished while WE have been spinning our wheels, (and a dangerously WEAK web). Momentum is not longer in OUR (USA) favor. BTDT... WE had our opportunites, the rest is gonna take EFFORT.

Are YOU up to the task?
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Old 08-23-2012, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 87,078,185 times
Reputation: 36644
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevike View Post
What speaks volumes is that you never miss an opportunity to criticize the US, but you have no problem defending China. I'm curious, why do you suppose that before the UK handed over Hong Kong they signed the Sino-British Joint Declaration which in essence said the Chinese were not to change anything in HK for 50 years?
Why do you suppose the Chinese honored that agreement? Because they were afraid of British gunboats, who could barely hold off Argentina? You might recall that the Chinese were entitled, irrespective of any later sureties requested by the UK, to receive Hong Kong at the expiration of the 99 year lease.

I did not defend China, I defended the Chinese people. Not the same thing. But Hong Kong has proved that even the Chinese government can be relied upon to act with honor.

The US is my country, and by constitution, it is my duty as a citizen to be one of the "checks and balances" that America depends upon to remain true. I do not exercise an opportunity to criticize the US when it runs foul of its obligations, I exercise a responsibility to. And, unlike China. "The American People" and "America" ARE the same thing, and one can be taken to be a reflection of the other.

Last edited by jtur88; 08-23-2012 at 07:51 AM..
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Old 08-23-2012, 07:47 AM
 
Location: Plymouth, MN
308 posts, read 897,714 times
Reputation: 394
clearly China has an extremely backward model of government and a crappy record on human rights violations, but I am absolutely impressed with all its accomplishments in modern times and its very long history and traditions. Chinese people seem to be very resourceful, hard working, and resilient. I also absolutely love Chinese food, they are the kings of dumplings!
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Old 08-23-2012, 10:32 AM
 
994 posts, read 1,238,275 times
Reputation: 806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glucorious View Post
China has not accomplished a lot. The mere fact that they have 1,3 billion people is the reason that their overall GDP is high, the mere reason that they are where they are now. They are far, far away from a per capita GDP that would rival ours.
The U.S. is the most accepting country on this planet. While there have been problems, there is not other country with so much racial diversity. No other country with so many cultures and races living together peacefully, and successfully. So, yes, the U.S. is, indeed, a shining counter example.
Many Chinese are similarly deluded about their own government
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:38 AM
 
3,210 posts, read 4,618,173 times
Reputation: 4314
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
I liked what you said until this sentence.

So the planet's resources are limited. Why do China and India have to make the sacrifices, save the energy so that Americans can squander? They don't fully appreciate the fact we have one planet earth? Do you think US and Canada and Australia fully appreciate that? Do you know an average American consumes about 20X the energy and resources a Chinese person does?

The Europeans as rich countries too, but are doing so much better. Americans are the worst when it comes to energy waste. Do people really have to live their 3000 sf huge mansions with 4 people? Do they really have to drive 2 hours a day to work? Do they really need to heat their home to 85 degrees in the winter and cool at 65 degrees in the summer?

No, not everyone can afford to live a US lifestyle, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to do so. Why not? Since America seems to think it is some sort of model for the world, don't expect people to quit wanting to consume more when the US is the leader so far ahead, right.

We have only one Earth, and we should all do something to save it. Expecting developing countries to consume less while the US can maintain their extravagant lifestyle unseen anywhere else, that's pure selfish.
It's all a moot point anyway, since the free market will cuase raw materials to bid up so high noone will be able to afford such things anyway.
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