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Old 09-03-2012, 07:39 PM
 
Location: Atlanta & NYC
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Language is the base. Dialect is how a person or group of people butcher previously mentioned language.
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Old 09-03-2012, 07:41 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,204,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ja1myn View Post
Language is the base. Dialect is how a person or group of people butcher previously mentioned language.
Everyone speaks a language, dialect and accent. It's a hierarchical division.
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Old 09-03-2012, 07:44 PM
 
Location: Atlanta & NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
Everyone speaks a language, dialect and accent. It's a hierarchical division.
Yes. Which is what I said, with a slight twist.
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Old 09-03-2012, 07:46 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ja1myn View Post
Yes. Which is what I said, with a slight twist.
No it's not what you said, you suggested that there's this idea of a 'pure' language without a dialect, and that dialects represent some sort of 'butchering' of languages. Every speaker of a language has their local dialect. In English, for instance, American English vs British English. Saying 'dude', for instance, is an example of a d dialectical feature, but are grammatical tendencies like saying 'a half hour' instead of 'half an hour.'
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Old 09-03-2012, 07:56 PM
 
Location: Atlanta & NYC
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Wtf? Do you study this stuff? That post just mindf***ed me.
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Old 09-04-2012, 05:58 AM
 
Location: Where the heart is...
4,927 posts, read 5,336,761 times
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Default "Dialect" or "language"

Quote:
Originally Posted by callmemaybe View Post
How far apart do two tongues have to be in order to be separate languages?
Difference between a language and a dialect?

Dialect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There is no universally accepted criterion for distinguishing a language from a dialect. A number of
rough measures exist, sometimes leading to contradictory results. Some linguists[3] do not differentiate
between languages and dialects, i.e. languages are dialects and vice versa. The distinction is therefore
subjective and depends on the user's frame of reference. Note also that the terms are not always treated
as mutually exclusive;[citation needed] there is not necessarily anything contradictory in the statement that
"the language of the Pennsylvania Dutch is a dialect of German". However, the term dialect always implies
a relation between languages: if language X is called a dialect, this implies that the speaker considers X
a dialect of some other language Y, which then usually is some standard language.

Language varieties are often called dialects rather than languages...
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Old 09-04-2012, 12:20 PM
 
6,474 posts, read 8,223,522 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
I bet most Americans would not understand 10% of traditional Yorkshire dialect, which is considered a dialect not a language. I would see it's a 'true dialect' - some people confuse accents without dialects, although 'American English' is dialectical in the sense it has a few of it's own words, idioms, expressions but I as an Australian would mostly hear how different words are spoken.

I think like a lot of human classifications it's as much a POLITICAL thing. It's politics that decides Danish and Norwegian are different. It's politics that decides that Cantonese is a 'dialect' not a separate language.
Norway has two official languages; bokmål and nynorsk. The first is based largely on Danish, the latter on the numerous dialects in Norway.
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Old 09-04-2012, 12:45 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,308 posts, read 108,445,430 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by britinparis View Post
[color=black][font=Verdana]
In the British context, it usually means a variety of the English language which differs from the standard not only by pronunciation but also by grammar, vocabulary, syntax and idiom –

In other places the reverse is true: separate "languages" are in fact linguistically two dialects of one language, but nevertheless for political reasons both are imbued with the status of language. This is true of the Serbian and Croatian "languages", which in reality are about as different as standard US and UK English. Another example are the Romanian and Moldovan "languages" – which is essentially the same variety but called a different name in each state.
This is the main criterion, I think. Swedish and Norwegian differ not only by vocabulary but by grammar. Norwegian and Danish don't have grammatical differences, thus some linguists consider them to be dialects of the same language. Nobody considers Serbian and Croatian as separate languages but the Serbs and Croats, for obvious reasons, and possibly the citizens of other states of the former Yugoslavia. In the West (N America, at least), they're taught as the same language: Serbo-Croatian. I don't know of anyone who considers Moldovan and Romanian to be separate languages, well, except some Russians, possibly. The Moldovans and Romanians I know certainly consider them to be the same, as do linguists.
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Old 09-04-2012, 01:55 PM
 
13,496 posts, read 18,249,940 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
I bet most Americans would not understand 10% of traditional Yorkshire dialect, which is considered a dialect not a language. I would see it's a 'true dialect' - ...
Some years ago I was considering purchasing a house that needed considerable renovation. I had a very precise list of I-wannas, and the real estate agent found me a contruction guy, and the three of us took and hour and a half tour through the house.

The construction guy - a Yorkshire native - addressed each of my requests at length and with much enthusiasm.

After he departed, the smiling, eager agent said, "Well, what do you think?"

And I said, "I'll tell you when you supply me with a notarized written translation, and if I love it...you will have to come every single day, all day to translate for him."

This Yorkshire fellow could have been speak Xosha for all I knew.
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Old 09-04-2012, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Østenfor sol og vestenfor måne
17,916 posts, read 24,446,002 times
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When I was on an archaeological dig in Scotland, we had students from across England, Scotland, and Ireland, as well as a couple of Americans. What I found interesting was the Americans and southern English were well understood by everyone, but no one, American or British/Irish alike, could understand everyone else, at least not all the time. :-) The students from particularly dialectic backgrounds modified their speech most of the time simply to be understood by folks from Essex and Massachusetts.
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