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View Poll Results: Which one if your favorite
NYC 117 37.26%
Paris 50 15.92%
Tokyo 49 15.61%
London 98 31.21%
Voters: 314. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-15-2012, 07:40 AM
 
250 posts, read 460,552 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rozenn View Post
Geez we're talking about the GLOBAL ranking, and it's not determined by the US-based operations of the companies. Where did you see that?
Global 500 - FAQ, Definitions and Explanations - Fortune
There is a difference between the Global 500 and the Fortune 500. If our friend did indeed mean the former, despite explicitly stating the latter, then his figures are also wrong; given that there are currently 19 Global 500 companies headquartered in the city of Paris, and 17 in London.

What is more interesting is the longer-term trend given that, prior to the 2008 collapse, Paris was home to 27 such companies in 2007; as opposed to only 15 for London.


Quote:
The quality of the Paris video may be better, it's irrelevant in this discussion. I was just pointing that you were comparing apples to oranges.
If you'd note carefully, this is exactly the point I'm trying to make.
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Old 12-15-2012, 08:22 AM
 
1,295 posts, read 2,310,441 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citizen401 View Post
There is a difference between the Global 500 and the Fortune 500. If our friend did indeed mean the former, despite explicitly stating the latter, then his figures are also wrong; given that there are currently 19 Global 500 companies headquartered in the city of Paris, and 17 in London.
You are still comparing apples with oranges because city limits of Paris are very small (100km²) while city limits of London are very wide (1,500km²).
Courbevoie, Boulogne-Billancourt, Rueil-Malmaison, Clichy, Levallois-Perret and Issy-les-Moulineaux are all inner suburbs of Paris.
In London not only these areas would be inside London but there would be inside INNER London.



If you add those inner suburbs the number of HQ grow by 29 and don't forget Roissy, Roissy is an outer suburb of Paris where is located CDG airport. The number tops by 30.
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Old 12-15-2012, 08:23 AM
 
Location: Scotland
8,024 posts, read 10,726,362 times
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French user it is hardly surprising you don't like London giving your name But as you can see by the poll plenty of people do, I don't understand how anyone can dislike London if you like big western cities.
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Old 12-15-2012, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Near Tours, France about 47°10'N 0°25'E
2,872 posts, read 4,519,941 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rozenn View Post
Geez we're talking about the GLOBAL ranking, and it's not determined by the US-based operations of the companies. Where did you see that?
Global 500 - FAQ, Definitions and Explanations - Fortune




The quality of the Paris video may be better, it's irrelevant in this discussion. I was just pointing that you were comparing apples to oranges. And apart from the Champs-Elysees, the other videos are from touristy areas with little shopping venues.



random Parisian ambiances

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4L_qTTLvxKM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-tY7ZgWlkI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLtc3JEfS4c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7i9Nl-ChqHM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5uje2GrmqQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csJupEA1lCI&NR=1&feature=endscreen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbZ9JzJGP6Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZBBgJA_SFw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp3G50jBRuU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2RTfaO3rxs
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Old 12-15-2012, 08:41 AM
 
250 posts, read 460,552 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by french user View Post
I don't find those videos to be really representative of the reality, but more to the image you want.
In London's video, it seems to have been taken almost only around the ultra-shopping area Picadilly/regent street/Oxford street.
We do almost not even see the typically red brick architecture that makes much of the city. I don't think regent street represent the architectural spirit of the town, I see it more like an exception, in both architectural style and human activity.

Every time I've been to London I was surprised that I didn't find much of that so-called Londoner "vibrancy" (don't really understand in what it does precisely consist) which is supposed to make London a so-dynamic city. I'm sorry but I never felt that London was so animated as you wish it be; actually in no way more than Paris, and obviously much less than New York and Tokyo. Each time I'm suprised that in central London feels so empty and quiet as soon as the communters left. To me Central London is a communter place, which means that it feels animated in shopping places (Oxford or regent streets) and in business places (the city, the docklands); but surpisingly feels very quiet after 17h when people have returned to their terrassed-houses homes. Inversely central Paris is heavily populated (with a density that is found in Europe only in mediterranean cities, as Naples or Barcelona).
Quote:
random Parisian ambiances
I think your videos capture the feel of Paris perfectly. Central London is architecturally more heterogenous than Central Paris, but the predominant architectural style in Central London is in keeping with variations on neo-classical and Regency architecture along major roads.

Note that I am not making a statement about the architectural merits of Central London or its degree of activity, but a foundational property that holds independently of both. As such, this can be experienced far beyond the areas of Central London shown so far, regardless of crowd volumes and the time of day.

The videos below have all been posted either earlier in this thread or elsewhere in this forum.

Walking west from Trafalgar Square/Piccadilly/Regent Street into Bond Street/Mayfair:



Walking east into Covent Garden:




London at its quietest: Thames Promenades on a Saturday morning, prior to the usual deluge of tourists:


Last edited by Citizen401; 12-15-2012 at 10:10 AM..
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Old 12-15-2012, 09:01 AM
 
250 posts, read 460,552 times
Reputation: 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minato ku View Post
You are still comparing apples with oranges because city limits of Paris are very small (100km²) while city limits of London are very wide (1,500km²).
Courbevoie, Boulogne-Billancourt, Rueil-Malmaison, Clichy, Levallois-Perret and Issy-les-Moulineaux are all inner suburbs of Paris.
In London not only these areas would be inside London but there would be inside INNER London.

If you add those inner suburbs the number of HQ grow by 29 and don't forget Roissy, Roissy is an outer suburb of Paris where is located CDG airport. The number tops by 30.
Your comment would have been far more astute if you had not only pointed out the arbitrariness of politically-defined geographic delineations for cities and metro areas; but also the arbitrariness of citing simplistic numerical tallies of global index-listed companies as a measure of that city's global financial and cultural influence.

If you want to commit to comparisons between the UK and France, or wish to obfuscate the consensus definitions of either city through an idiosyncratic semantics, then feel free to go ahead. It doesn't impinge upon any argument being defended here.
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Old 12-15-2012, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Near Tours, France about 47°10'N 0°25'E
2,872 posts, read 4,519,941 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paull805 View Post
French user it is hardly surprising you don't like London giving your name
It is funny how you assume I dislike London just because I'm french... It is funny how Anglos you assume that if I do not recognise London as being superior to Paris means I dislike it... My opinion is that there are more interesting cities in Europe and the world, and that London is far to not the cultural/economic/demographic/architectural hub of Europe (well, politically and culturally it is does not consider itself to be really in Europe) as our British friend would like to depict. If you look with a very Anglo-saxon perspective you might feel that London has more to offer in terms of culture and entertainment or business, but that is ony because, as a non-francophone, you do not see Paris only from a touristic point of view and not from an inside francophone perspective.

Aslo, if you want to make comparisions, as other poster have precised, you should compared what is comparable: administratively, Paris is just the equivalent of central London for London or mahattan for New York (without the fact that most of Paris business actvity is made outside of the city of Paris limits:
http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/1...ofpariscq4.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...px-AUParis.png

In Paris urban agglomeration; 2 million people live in the city of Paris, but 8 millions live in "suburbs" (in the meaning that they are outside of the city administrative limits, but some of them can still urbanistially as dense as central Paris: All these areas are actually "suburbs" (so usually not counted in "paris"): That is why comparing the whole greater London with just the city of Paris has no meaning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paull805 View Post
But as you can see by the poll plenty of people do
I'm for freedom of conscience. Anyone has the right of liking London more than any other city on earth. I don't have any problem with that. Inversely it seems that many British people are not happy when London is not on's prefered city, as if it was an obligation to be in a passion with that city.


Quote:
Originally Posted by paull805 View Post
I don't understand how anyone can dislike London if you like big western cities.
What is a "big western city" ?
In the meaning of "western Europe"? / or "of Anglo-American global culture"? "capitalist"? ... I don't see exactly what can means a "western city". big western European cities are usually very different to each other (especially in a north/south scale), in their urbanism as much as in their culture.

Last edited by french user; 12-15-2012 at 10:36 AM..
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Old 12-15-2012, 10:08 AM
 
Location: In the heights
28,909 posts, read 28,063,458 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citizen401 View Post
There is a difference between the Global 500 and the Fortune 500. If our friend did indeed mean the former, despite explicitly stating the latter, then his figures are also wrong; given that there are currently 19 Global 500 companies headquartered in the city of Paris, and 17 in London.

What is more interesting is the longer-term trend given that, prior to the 2008 collapse, Paris was home to 27 such companies in 2007; as opposed to only 15 for London.


If you'd note carefully, this is exactly the point I'm trying to make.
Did you know the above before? I feel like you're either squabbling over minor details of a non-native English speaker's post or that these are things you dug out after the fact. It's obvious that he's referring to the Global 500 isn't it? Also, should it not count for Paris if it's not in the tiny square miles of Paris the city but is a few or less than a mile away from its borders in La Defense or another one of the close by suburbs? City boundaries are sort of arbitrary anyhow--the actual City of London is a tiny square mile isn't it? The actual metro area is what matters.

For some reason, the wording you used earlier made it seem like Paris collapsed from 27 to 19 companies which could be misleading as that was not the case. Paris and its bordering suburbs such as La Defense--intentionally created to host large multinationals while still being more or less in Paris--is home to 30 of France's 32 Global 500 companies maybe 29 if you consider Roissy too far out.

Tokyo seems do to better than all three other cities by a substantial margin on this metric which is notable. Paris is a significant jump down from there, then NYC, then London. Overall though, I think NYC is likely the most powerful though a discussion about the most powerful/influential city overall should probably include DC (despite being a fairly tiny and dowdy metro in comparison) and Beijing (despite its huge quality of life issues). Then again, this did say favorite city and not most powerful city. Out of these cities, I like Tokyo most but more to visit than live as I don't speak fluent Japanese.
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Old 12-15-2012, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Near Tours, France about 47°10'N 0°25'E
2,872 posts, read 4,519,941 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citizen401 View Post
Yet that is the problem with Paris. There is more to a city than its architecture, infrastructure, political and economic ties, its population and statistical indices. Some may refer to it as a synergism or a feeling that is intangible and often hard to define, and does not appear to be wholly subjective.
I think you are talking about that so-called "vibrancy", that Londoners always speak about? usually without being able to define any of it?

For me, I understand the term "vibrancy" as frenetic street life activity, mixing of people, creative culture. In don't think that London does better than Paris at all in that field (feel free to think the inverse). I understand that as anglophones you ressent more the vibrancy of London since it is your culture and your language. As a non-english speaker I felt much difficulty to feel that vibrancy to the same extend. All I wanted to notice with my videos is that for me, I didn't felt London as having as a lively street life as Paris does, especially during the night in the central London, which is for me felt incredibly empty for a city that alsway talk about how "vibrant" it is. (Or maybe "vribrant" is a specific anglo-saxon concept I have no idea about). I remember, after seeing a show in covent garden, to fell immediatly in a sort of ghost city (well, it was not very late, something like 10 PM o-clock). Also we has difficulties to find any restaurant at that time; we finally had no choice than going to the Chinese disctrict to find something open; each time we entered a pub they told us that it was to late to serve anything else than drinks...
Well, since I'm not a very beer-oriented person; and I like to eat late; I think I do not fit well in a city where you have to eat a 6 PM...

To me lively European cities are Paris, Barcelona or Madrid, but not really London. I'm sorry I you feel bad that I didn't catched or fully appreciated all the genious of your city as you do.

What London does have, and that Paris doesn't at all; it what I would call "Anglo-saxon global culture". That is why London's life makes me feel like New York one. And this is what I found interesting about London. The videos of London's ambiances you posted express well what I would put under that concept (maybe that you you Anglo-saxon call "vibrancy"). I know many would be angry of that comparision, but that was the way I felt; the creative "fusion" foods, the various fast food concepts, pubs, the traders drinking coffea in paper cups walking in the streets, the strong ethnic identities communities each in its own district, the business-culture, the Anglo-American cultural shows (many of the same musicals than in Broadway); The strong pop-culture (Anglo pop music); the colorfull fashion; streetware-derived fashions; the surburbian living in terraced-houses, etc. These things are quite foreign for me, but I felt them in both New York and London, but in a much larger scale in New-York; that is why I prefered NewYork over London.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Citizen401 View Post
I mentioned this earlier, but however much I want to like Paris for its architectural beauty and charm, it falls short of the cultural dynamism, sophistication and vibrancy of New York City and London. There are some breath-takingly beautiful areas in Central Paris, but as a global city it is simply not in the same category as London.
I agree with you on the fact that both cities are completly different kinds of cities, London being alongside with NewYork within the Anglo-saxon type of world cities.
But contrary with you I don't consider Paris not being Anglo makes it inferior.

Last edited by french user; 12-15-2012 at 10:23 AM..
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Old 12-15-2012, 10:30 AM
 
Location: London, UK
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All these cities above have great sides to them, I would never turn down a offer to visit these cities. Bit for me New york city would be the only city i would stay in because like french user said it has a 'anglo saxon culture' that Paris or Tokyo doesn't have.
New york city would be a home away from home type place for me.
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