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View Poll Results: ?
Qatar 2 0.67%
United Arab Emirates 9 3.03%
Australia 10 3.37%
Canada 38 12.79%
United States of America 165 55.56%
Singapore 14 4.71%
United Kingdom 15 5.05%
Brazil 13 4.38%
Other 31 10.44%
Voters: 297. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-30-2012, 07:27 PM
 
679 posts, read 660,593 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fear&Whiskey View Post
India is less diverse religiously than many other countries. Firstly if we are to count regional variations in dialect then within a small area such as the UK you could say the Cornish have their own language and culture (only a small percentage use it but it's on the increase again) as do the Welsh so should be described as a different ethnic group than say British. In Scotland you have the Faroe Islands who also have their own dialict/language so this phenomena isn't exclusive to India.

Also if you were to sub-divide every definition of Christian in the UK or US census you would have Church Of England, Catholic, Preysbetarian, Evangelist, Greek Orthodox, Born Again Christians and Drive Thru Burger King Fast Food Varierty and so on etc.....

Also, according to the US State Department 'Religions (2001 census): Hindu 80.5%; Muslim 13.4%; Christian 2.3%; Sikh 1.9%; other groups including Buddhist, Jain, Parsi within 1.8%; unspecified 0.1%.
Languages: Hindi, English, and 16 other official languages.'

A higher percentage of the Indian population is Hindu than the percentage of the UK population that is Christian.

The percentage of Christian in the UK is lower than the percentage of the most predominant religion in India.
Source: 2001 Census
Christian42,079,000 71.6% No religion9,104,0001 5.5%Muslim 1,591,000 2.7%Hindu 559,0001.0%Sikh 336,000 0.6%Jewish 267,000 0.5%Buddhist 152,000 0.3% Other religion 179,000 0.3%Not stated 4,289,000 7.3%.

So there's a higher percentage of muslims alone in the UK than there is Christians in India. Added to that there is no significant representation of Jewish people in India and all the indigenous Indian religions combined make up a total of 4.3% of the religious representation in the UK, a higher proportion than the representation of non-indigenous religions in India 2.3%.

Cultural diversity means inclusivity and integration too and ethnically India is nowhere near as mixed as the UK.

The UK has been invaded too and many of these cultural influences have also been incorporated into what the UK is today. Someone that is represented as British today may have a lineage that incorporates all the different cultures of the UK as well as the immigrant influence of Italians, French, German, Spanish, Jewish you name it it's there.

Today in London there is every ethnic group and culture in the world in every major city. What is the global span of India's diversity? How far outside its own continet does it extend in terms of immigration from outside countries that have settled there historically or invaded such as Iran in history gone by?

Does it include Greeks, Italians, Spanish, South Americans, Central Americans, East Europeans, Scandanavian, Australians, the Blatic regions, Russia and much immigration from outside the South Asian region from other parts of their globe have settled in India apart from the colonial imperialist legacy of the UK? I'm genuinely interested. Are there many Americans there? Canadians? Puerto Ricans? Jamaicans? People from Somalia? I'm curious.

Multi-culturalism is more about integration of culture and a more inclusive scale. Regional variations in dialect as well as indigenous languages within the same population are part of the story too but to pretend this makes India special or different is as patronising as your condescending rant about Chinatown being representaive as the antithesis of multi-culturalism in the modern world.
Your definition of "multiculturalism" is nothing more than a large western construct and a large bias carried by many people in their narrow "view" of multiculturalism. What is the linguistic diversity of the UK? You have English as the primary language along with a few sub languages that are essentially dead. The immigrants usually learn English and teach it to their children, their mother language is often used at home and will likely die at as the children adopt the next generation.

Places like India, Indonesia and Nigeria have many different languages and many so in religion (traditional native religion) and ethnicity. Places such as these are so diverse you can find different street signs with different languages just by traveling to a different city with completely different customs that would be COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY ALIEN TO THE PEOPLE IN THE OTHER DISTRICT! This is what multiculturalism is! People coming together and conforming to an already established norm, while slightly influencing it, in one country is called the "melting pot" and is a completely different concept to that of multiculturalism.
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Old 09-30-2012, 07:33 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,029,399 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunno what to put here View Post
That is unbelievably false.

You have cities such as Leicester, which is only 63.9% 'White', 29.4% South Asian, 4.6% Black, and 23.0% foreign born.

Birmingham, the second largest city (apparently), is 63.3% White British, 19.7% Asian, and 6.6% Black, and 20% foreign born.

Luton is 68.0% 'White', 19% Asian, and 7% Black.

There are countless examples.
I'm talking nationally.

Demography of the United Kingdom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Britain is 85.7% 'white British'. You can stick that in your pipe and smoke it, old chap.
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Old 09-30-2012, 07:36 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,029,399 times
Reputation: 11862
It's annoying how many people are saying the USA is most multicultural, and how most are voting for it.

You have to look at actual STATISTICS, percentages, hard numbers, not just subjective observations.

The US is really only that diverse/multicultural in the major cities and certain areas.

Canada is over 25% overseas born, US is half that, which do you think has more people who bring a truly different culture to the country?

Sure there may be hundreds of hyphenated Americans but for the most part they have adapted to American culture. In Canada and Australia there's a lot more newer immigrants PER CAPITA so it's naturally going to be multicultural.

The fact Australia doesn't even rate just shows how few North Americans have been down here. Come to the downtowns of any big city here and foreigners probably outnumber Australians 2 to 1. I didn't see that in any city in America, not even NYC.
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Old 09-30-2012, 07:54 PM
 
455 posts, read 1,131,317 times
Reputation: 438
I don't understand why foreign born to you foreign born=multiculturalism. Would a place like the UAE with what 60% foreign born be the multicultural capital of the world?

I don't see why minority groups that may have been established in a country for many decades or so somehow no longer equal diversity?

I think ethnic origin of the population is a much better way to look at diversity. Also frankly multiculturalism or diversity shouldn't be about how many seperate non-interacting cultures happen to be living next to each other but how those cultures integrate and fuse into each other and how that affects the broader national culture itself.


ps. not to go into a whole other side topic but if illegal immigrants were calculated into the official immigration stats the us's foreign born pop. would increase quite a bit.
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Old 09-30-2012, 08:11 PM
 
Location: Brisbane
5,058 posts, read 7,495,551 times
Reputation: 4531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mhundred View Post
I don't understand why foreign born to you foreign born=multiculturalism. Would a place like the UAE with what 60% foreign born be the multicultural capital of the world?

I don't see why minority groups that may have been established in a country for many decades or so somehow no longer equal diversity?

I think ethnic origin of the population is a much better way to look at diversity. Also frankly multiculturalism or diversity shouldn't be about how many seperate non-interacting cultures happen to be living next to each other but how those cultures integrate and fuse into each other and how that affects the broader national culture itself.
They do equal racial diversity, but not so much cultural.

It would be hard to argue that black person who was born in the UK, and has both his parents and grandparents born in the UK, would be somehow culturally less british than a white person fresh of the plane from Moscow. Our IT guy at work is an african brit, other than skin colour there is nothing african about him at all, hes as British as David Cameron.

Last edited by danielsa1775; 09-30-2012 at 08:26 PM..
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Old 09-30-2012, 08:26 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,029,399 times
Reputation: 11862
What daniel said. We're talking about multiculturalism. Don't confuse it with people who just look different.

NYC was the only American city I went to which seemed to me as diverse as Sydney. Of course I'm sure SF holds a candle to it. LA seemed was somewhat diverse in terms of looks but it was far more American.
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Old 09-30-2012, 08:52 PM
 
455 posts, read 1,131,317 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielsa1775 View Post
They do equal racial diversity, but not so much cultural.

It would be hard to argue that black person who was born in the UK, and has both his parents and grandparents born in the UK, would be somehow culturally less british than a white person fresh of the plane from Moscow. Our IT guy at work is an african brit, other than skin colour there is nothing african about him at all, hes as British as David Cameron.
So again the following countries:

Andorra
Qatar
United Arab Emirates
Monaco
Kuwait

Should be considered the most multicultural in the world due the percentage of foreign born in them. Diversity and multiculturalism are much more than how many immigrants live in a country based on percentages.

The example you used made it seem and perhaps it is the case that one can either be culturally british or not. When as it is in the US one can be both culturally american and at the same time representative of their own ethnic culture racial or not.

Overall the united states has the best mix of both historical and current cultural diversity.

As for my previous example of why i put the US over canada and is probably the case for australia and the UK as well. Is that there tends to be some diversity even in the smaller cities and towns outside of the larger metro regions. You travel a few km outside of the toronto area or some of the other regions and it becomes almost exclusively white. In the us its less of that case.

Last edited by Mhundred; 09-30-2012 at 09:01 PM..
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Old 09-30-2012, 09:17 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,029,399 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mhundred View Post
So again the following countries:

Andorra
Qatar
United Arab Emirates
Monaco
Kuwait

Should be considered the most multicultural in the world due the percentage of foreign born in them. Diversity and multiculturalism are much more than how many immigrants live in a country based on percentages.

The example you used made it seem and perhaps it is the case that one can either be culturally british or not. When as it is in the US one can be both culturally american and at the same time representative of their own ethnic culture racial or not.

Overall the united states has the best mix of both historical and current cultural diversity.

As for my previous example of why i put the US over canada and is probably the case for australia and the UK as well. Is that there tends to be some diversity even in the smaller cities and towns outside of the larger metro regions. You travel a few km outside of the toronto area or some of the other regions and it becomes almost exclusively white. In the us its less of that case.
Of course overseas born is one factor. The source of these migrants is another. Australia still gets a lot of British and Kiwi migrants, with a similar culture, but recently I believe the PRC became the biggest source of new migrants.

I think the rural/urban divide is typical of most of America as well, but I will agree that the various European cultures established roots in rural areas (Germans in the rural Midwest for example), which was also the case in Australia.
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Old 09-30-2012, 09:24 PM
 
Location: Brisbane
5,058 posts, read 7,495,551 times
Reputation: 4531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mhundred View Post
So again the following countries:

Andorra
Qatar
United Arab Emirates
Monaco
Kuwait

Should be considered the most multicultural in the world due the percentage of foreign born in them. Diversity and multiculturalism are much more than how many immigrants live in a country based on percentages.

The example you used made it seem and perhaps it is the case that one can either be culturally british or not. When as it is in the US one can be both culturally american and at the same time representative of their own ethnic culture racial or not.

Overall the united states has the best mix of both historical and current cultural diversity.

As for my previous example of why i put the US over canada and is probably the case for australia and the UK as well. Is that there tends to be some diversity even in the smaller cities and towns outside of the larger metro regions. You travel a few km outside of the toronto area or some of the other regions and it becomes almost exclusively white. In the us its less of that case.
Of course it is, its also about the diverstiy of where thoes people where born, diversity of religion, diversity of language, food, clothing, how many of thoes migrants are able to obtain pernament residency or citizenship of there country of choice etc etc. However as you live more and more in a foreign country you become more and more culturally part of that country.

I know americans in general seem very attached to there culture of origin, but im sorry guys if your Great Grandparents were immigrants from Ireland, there is nothing Irish about you. etc etc.

I myself had living immediate family members (parents, Grandparents and Great Greatparents) who were born in England, Ireland and Germany when i was born, ive being to and lived in all three countries for various periods of time, and know for certain I am culturally Australian and nothing else.

The facts are that 93% of Americans speak either english or spanish at home, to get to 93% in Australia you would have to add togther, the 76% of people who speak english English plus Madarin, Italian, Arabic, Cantonesse, Vietnamesse, Greek, Hindi, Punjabi, and at least another 10 langages on top of that to get anywhere 93% of the population.

Last edited by danielsa1775; 09-30-2012 at 10:53 PM..
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Old 09-30-2012, 09:26 PM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,564 posts, read 12,814,161 times
Reputation: 9400
Toronto...40 years ago you would not even see a black or brown face on the subway...NOW you hope on the subway..and there will be one person from every country on earth...on one car...seriously...I hate liberalism..but I have to admit..the experiment seems to have worked....There are woman who push those multi seated baby strollers..day care workers..I see babies from all races...and once they get into public school..all races get along...except within our small black ghettos...blacks have been taught by their grandmothers to hate whites....other than that...It makes me think of the Canadian flag...and a biblical line...."The leaf will be for the healing of the nations" Canada is a healer of the world...MOST immigrants love here...and are happy to have left the trouble spots in the world.
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