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Old 10-27-2007, 01:32 AM
 
Location: Phoenix
38 posts, read 168,252 times
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[quote=boardmanite;1704481]The "tu" vs "usted" concept is vastly more complicated than what students are taught in high school. In many countries, one or more of the pronouns are eliminated in favor of "vos".

Hmm, ok, I can fake the "tu eres" and "Ud es". My problem now is the "vos". What verb tense is used with it? Surely not the the "vosotros sois"? Isn't that the plural familair form? The "y'all are " form? Does one say "vos eres" or "vos es" ?
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Old 11-08-2007, 03:41 PM
 
984 posts, read 3,421,066 times
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Default Depends where you are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kipcc View Post
Heyy everyone...I take Spanish, and I've always been taught that you use "tu" (the familiar) tense when speaking to either kids, or your friends. And that you use "usted" (the more formal tense) when speaking to an adult, a boss, etc. I remember having that drilled into our brains to the point where my teacher would take points off our participation grade if we used "tu" instead of "usted" with her. Well...now I'm hearing otherwise. I have two friends who used to live in Spain and they both told me that they NEVER use usted unless it's an extremely formal situation. They said the usage of "usted" is getting outdated.

So...is this just something unique to Spain? Is "usted" still used in other countries? Outside of Spanish class, I'm stuck as to whether I should use it or not. On the one hand, I don't want to seem disrespectful, but on the other, I don't want to seem outdated. Opinions?
Ola!

I also was in Spain and I noticed that usted was barely ever used. Even in the university the professors and students 'ed each other.
In Argentina usted is not used very often either. There, you vos almost everybody.
As for me, I always start with , because that's what I learned in Spain.
I have talked with people from other countries, and nobody corrected me.

I guess it depends on where you are. Pay attention to how people talk to each other.
As a non-native speaker, you won't be resented just for using the wrong pronoun. Even Spanish native speakers often have to adjust depending where they are and/or whom they're talking to.
Most likely your interlocutor would just correct you if (s)he doesn't want to be addressed with a certain pronoun.

Salu2


MarK
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Old 11-08-2007, 10:57 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
1,528 posts, read 5,987,136 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nativeDallasite View Post
It's better to be outdated than disrespectful. Use usted unless asked not to.
I disagree, Spanish was my first language, usted sounds funny to my Spanish ear. I always use 'tu'. Sorta like you hear less people saying 'hello how are you' and more saying 'hey! whats up?' or 'yo what going on?'
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Old 11-13-2007, 10:57 PM
 
639 posts, read 2,065,238 times
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I am Hispanic - Dominican and Cuban - and I used usted to anyone in a position of authority, or older persons.

Sometimes I'll even use it if I'm at a store.
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Old 11-16-2007, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Wilmington Delaware
10 posts, read 45,484 times
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Yeah...I'm Puerto Rican and I use USTED whenever I don't know someone regardless of age or position.
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Old 11-21-2007, 06:29 PM
 
Location: the midwest
492 posts, read 2,246,494 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travelintom View Post
Hmm, ok, I can fake the "tu eres" and "Ud es". My problem now is the "vos". What verb tense is used with it? Surely not the the "vosotros sois"? Isn't that the plural familair form? The "y'all are " form? Does one say "vos eres" or "vos es" ?
In Ecuador, specifically in Cuenca, I regularly heard "vos sois". I believe in Argentina it is "vos sos". And in Chile "vos soi".

Check out this article on voseo, which is the use of "vos":

Voseo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 03-26-2008, 12:31 AM
 
984 posts, read 3,421,066 times
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Thumbs up Vos

Quote:
Originally Posted by boardmanite View Post
The "tu" vs "usted" concept is vastly more complicated than what students are taught in high school. In many countries, one or more of the pronouns are eliminated in favor of "vos".
That's true.
In Central America (except Panama), Paraguay, Uruguay, and Argentina, the people almost exclusively use vos, to the extent that & ti sound quite "foreign". Many people from those countries would admit that they'd say or ti only to foreigners.

Quote:
Originally Posted by travelintom View Post
Hmm, ok, I can fake the "tu eres" and "Ud es". My problem now is the "vos". What verb tense is used with it? Surely not the the "vosotros sois"? Isn't that the plural familair form? The "y'all are " form? Does one say "vos eres" or "vos es" ?
In most of the times, you just need to see the conjugation of vosotros in a verb table, and simply eliminate the I before the final S. The ending -ís stays the way it is.
Examples:
(vosotros) habláis becomes: (vos) hablás
(vosotros) coméis ===> (vos) comés
(vosotros) sois ===> (vos) sos
(vosotros) venís ===> (vos) venís


In Chile, the ending -áis (and -ois) of vosotros loses the final -s, and -éis & -ís are merged to -ís, with the final -s aspirated so that it sounds like -íh in English.
Examples:
habláis ===> hablái
coméis
===> comís (sounds like comíh)
venís ===> venís (sounds like veníh)


In Venezuela, and apparently in Ecuador as well, all the vosotros forms are kept, but they are used with vos and for one person (instead of plural as in Spain).
Examples:
vos sois
vos habláis
vos coméis
vos venís


Some people say "vos eres", but nobody would say something like "vos es".

Quote:
Originally Posted by boardmanite View Post
In Ecuador, specifically in Cuenca, I regularly heard "vos sois". I believe in Argentina it is "vos sos". And in Chile "vos soi".

Check out this article on voseo, which is the use of "vos":

Voseo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You're right again.

A note about Chile: It's more usual there to mix with the verb forms of vos. And specifically for the verb ser, there are two possible forms in the present: soi & erís.
So the possibilities are:
Tú erís
Tú soi
Vos soi
(only in very informal situations)


Btw, thanks for the information about Ecuador!


Saludos,


Neutre
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Old 03-26-2008, 12:59 AM
 
984 posts, read 3,421,066 times
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Default Usted in Spain

Quote:
Originally Posted by CMDallas View Post
I disagree, Spanish was my first language, usted sounds funny to my Spanish ear. I always use 'tu'. Sorta like you hear less people saying 'hello how are you' and more saying 'hey! whats up?' or 'yo what going on?'
That's true, at least in Spain, usted is reserved for very formal situations.
In daily life, I'd say usted only to someone who is older than sixty. Even then I'd change to (or vos ) as soon as I know him/her better.

I believe this depends on region and/or upbringing.
Just look at Colombia:
Around Bogotá they use usted even among best friends.
In the North is widespread.
In the West and some regions bordering Venezuela, vos is common.

Saludos,


Neutre
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Old 03-26-2008, 01:03 AM
 
Location: southern california
61,293 posts, read 81,546,742 times
Reputation: 55458
going to familiar form puts you in a vulnerable situation. its like sitting down before you are invited to sit down at an interview.
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Old 03-26-2008, 06:59 AM
 
984 posts, read 3,421,066 times
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Default Pronombre

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
going to familiar form puts you in a vulnerable situation. its like sitting down before you are invited to sit down at an interview.
You're right.

I only know well enough about the situation in Spain and Uruguay, where usted is used only in extremely formal situations, or with old people you don't know.

In Chile it's quite interesting: The use of is (almost) as common as in Spain, that means usted is used only in very formal settings, yet little children are sometimes usted'ed. Some kind of an endearing address.

Around Bogotá in Colombia, the use of usted is universal, even among close friends, parents to their children, among siblings, etc. (in other regions of Colombia the situation is different).

Etc. etc. etc.

All being said, most of the native speakers wouldn't mind at all whatever pronoun a foreigner or a Spanish as second language speaker uses.
If (s)he stays long enough in a certain Spanish speaking place, (s)he'll pick up the customs of his/her surroundings quite automatically.

The native speakers themselves are used to different pronouns. That's nothing new to them.

Saludos


Neutre
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