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Belgium #6 is very surprising to me. I lived in Namur (the capital of Wallonia) and the people there could hardly speak English. I went to University there as well and we had one course in English; the Belgian students were really struggling and asked me for my notes after every class because they couldn't understand what the professor was saying. If Belgium is the 6th most proficient country in English then that must be because of the Flanders region.
I think this list is very strange anyway. I refuse to believe Germany is only slightly more proficient in English than Poland or that Japan and South Korea are more proficient than France. According to the Eurobarometer, around 1/3 of French people could speak English at a conversational level. I doubt it's anywhere near that for Japan and SK.
The Wiki link in the OP says those scores are based on test answers by self-selected people (i.e. people clicked on banners and completed the test to see how they stacked up). That's hardly scientific and I would assume is the cause of some inconsistencies.
Regarding Belgium, going by the 60/40 Dutch/French split and assuming English proficiency in Flanders is similar to the Netherlands (while Wallonia = France), you get 60% * 66.32 + 40% * 54.28 = 61.5, which is pretty close to the 62.46 figure that was reported.
I believe one of the biggest factors in mastering another language is not the quality of the educational system of the country in question but exposure to that language, especially in everyday life. Exposure in non-Anglophone countries usually takes the form of media - music, TV, movies, etc. Languages with large speaker bases (French, German, Spanish) often have the ubiquitous American and British programs and Hollywood movies dubbed into their native tongues, while those without much smaller speaker populations (Dutch, Swedish, Icelandic) have television programs subtitled. Subtitles, from my own experience, are an excellent way to learn another language. Even passively watching, a literate person can often pick up after a while on vocabulary and whether a sentence sounds "right" or not (which is a long way of saying "grammar").
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Originally Posted by tvdxer
I believe one of the biggest factors in mastering another language is not the quality of the educational system of the country in question but exposure to that language, especially in everyday life. Exposure in non-Anglophone countries usually takes the form of media - music, TV, movies, etc. Languages with large speaker bases (French, German, Spanish) often have the ubiquitous American and British programs and Hollywood movies dubbed into their native tongues, while those without much smaller speaker populations (Dutch, Swedish, Icelandic) have television programs subtitled. Subtitles, from my own experience, are an excellent way to learn another language. Even passively watching, a literate person can often pick up after a while on vocabulary and whether a sentence sounds "right" or not (which is a long way of saying "grammar").
Indeed. The success of Sweden on the world music stage is a case in point. On the fringes of Europe geographically and culturally, Sweden surpassed much bigger European countries like France, Europe and Italy in terms of exporting huge pop stars in the English speaking world. Indeed ABBA remains arguably THE biggest pop sensation of the 1970s internationally, or at least in the top 5, although seems a lot less popular in the US than elsewhere.
Portuguese speak English way better than Spaniards, mostly due to subtitling films rather than dubbing. And in this ranking, they are near each other, Spain even one place higher.
Besides, I am surprised by very high places taken by Hungary, Poland and Czech Republic. In my experience, there are tons of people in these countries who don't speak English or speak it badly. Sure, there is some progress with the younger generations, but still it's definitely not like in Northern Europe. Far from that.
Portuguese speak English way better than Spaniards, mostly due to subtitling films rather than dubbing. And in this ranking, they are near each other, Spain even one place higher.
Besides, I am surprised by very high places taken by Hungary, Poland and Czech Republic. In my experience, there are tons of people in these countries who don't speak English or speak it badly. Sure, there is some progress with the younger generations, but still it's definitely not like in Northern Europe. Far from that.
I'm surprised by that as well. I've been to Hungary and the Czech Republic and in my experience people definitely didn't speak English that well (especially the older generations). In the Czech Republic we met more people speaking German than English, which I found rather surprising. Someone said about Poland that a lot of its people work abroad, but this is mostly for low-skilled labour that requires little education.
Indeed. The success of Sweden on the world music stage is a case in point. On the fringes of Europe geographically and culturally, Sweden surpassed much bigger European countries like France, Europe and Italy in terms of exporting huge pop stars in the English speaking world. Indeed ABBA remains arguably THE biggest pop sensation of the 1970s internationally, or at least in the top 5, although seems a lot less popular in the US than elsewhere.
I'm surprised by that as well. I've been to Hungary and the Czech Republic and in my experience people definitely didn't speak English that well (especially the older generations). In the Czech Republic we met more people speaking German than English, which I found rather surprising. Someone said about Poland that a lot of its people work abroad, but this is mostly for low-skilled labour that requires little education.
The self-selection problem I emphasized in a previous post likely covers that as well. The EP test was an online test and Internet usage probably correlates strongly with knowledge of English in those countries.
As for German vs. English, I've read on many travel blogs that up until very recently, it was much easier to get by on German than on English in Central and Eastern Europe (including Serbia, Montenegro, Bulgaria), maybe for historical reasons (Austria-Hungary and the economic ties between Germany and the Ottoman Empire). IIRC the German language was even used as a functional language for some time in Yugoslavia as it was a neutral language and didn't favor any particular ethnic group.
Here are some things that really surprise me or I can't really believe:
Hungary, Poland and the Czech Republic before Singapore
Hungary before Germany: never spoke English in Germany, so it could be possible, but seems a bit unlikely.
Switzerland on rank 15: Also seems quite odd, but maybe its because of the French/Italian speaking parts?
Spain before Italy, France and Portugal
Hong Kong behind Japan and Korea: Seriously, basically no one spoke English when I went to Korea and Japan. Hard to believe that it's even worse in Hong Kong. But I will see in January
Japan before France and Italy
Qatar being that far behind basically everyone.
Thailand on the second to last place.
Russia doing quite good
Indeed. The success of Sweden on the world music stage is a case in point. On the fringes of Europe geographically and culturally, Sweden surpassed much bigger European countries like France, Europe and Italy in terms of exporting huge pop stars in the English speaking world. Indeed ABBA remains arguably THE biggest pop sensation of the 1970s internationally, or at least in the top 5, although seems a lot less popular in the US than elsewhere.
Oh, and how about Roxette in the 80s and Ace of Base in the 90s? I was waiting for something in the 00s, but nothing really got as big. Lots of death metal though which is good.
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