Native pronunciation of foreign cities and countries--obnoxious or just correct? (vs, drive)

[jtur88]

Originally Posted by CodyW

True. It also has an alternate spelling, Göteborg. Though it would be more along the lines of Yuh-ta-borje. The R is there, but the G turns into the Swedish J sound, which is more like a Y in English.

I suspect these cities have alternate names in English because the native names are hard for non-speakers. That would be the common sense reason, at least.

That said, I would prefer that people use the name they CAN pronounce, rather than butchering the native one.

The reason some have alternate names in English is because the British renamed only the cities that had consular offices during times of royalty. All cities in France retain their French spelling, because France was a unified kingdom with only a consul in Paris, and could therefore diplomatically ignore all the others and not even talk about them. Same for Spain and Portugal. But Germany and Italy were loosely confederated states, with consuls in Milan, Turin, Naples, Florence, Venice, Munich, Cologne, so the British gave them English names instead of calling them by their real names. Also capitals like Brussels, Warsaw, Prague, Vienna, Lisbon, Bucharest, Moscow, but none of the other cities in those countries. So, all the cities that are re-spelled in English are the ones that were the seats of kingdoms or dukedoms that warranted an exchange of diplomats.

So, today our newscasters can say Naples and Warsaw with their choice of American twang, but still have struggle with Civitavecchio and Rzeszow.

[theunbrainwashed]

Originally Posted by jtur88

What the Americans call Gothenberg, is pronounced something like Yut-ta-boy in Swedish.

It's pronounced yoh-te-borch (German ch) in Swedish. I know, one of my neighbors was from there

[Jimrob1]

Originally Posted by CodyW

In Danish, it is spelled København. The Danes have a way of pronouncing things that is hard to emulate for this Swede, but it sounds like "Kew-bin-hauwn." The V in Danish turns into more of a W sound. And they live in Danmark, not Denmark.

Similarly, Sweden in Swedish is Sverige, but Stockholm is still Stockholm.

Thanks

[theunbrainwashed]

Originally Posted by jtur88

The reason some have alternate names in English is because the British renamed only the cities that had consular offices during times of royalty. All cities in France retain their French spelling, because France was a unified kingdom with only a consul in Paris, and could therefore diplomatically ignore all the others and not even talk about them. Same for Spain and Portugal. But Germany and Italy were loosely confederated states, with consuls in Milan, Turin, Naples, Florence, Venice, Munich, Cologne, so the British gave them English names instead of calling them by their real names. Also capitals like Brussels, Warsaw, Prague, Vienna, Lisbon, Bucharest, Moscow, but none of the other cities in those countries. So, all the cities that are re-spelled in English are the ones that were the seats of kingdoms or dukedoms that warranted an exchange of diplomats.

So, today our newscasters can say Naples and Warsaw with their choice of American twang, but still have struggle with Civitavecchio and Rzeszow.

That's interesting. I never knew that, that would explain why some cities have an English translation while others do not.

[dunno what to put here]

Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed

It's pronounced yoh-te-borch (German ch) in Swedish. I know, one of my neighbors was from there

Yeah, I knew two people from Goteborg in the 90s - they were hippies and didn't wear shoes.

[Mac15]

Originally Posted by UnexpectedError

In conversation, do you think it's more proper to pronounce foreign places as the locals would pronounce it? Or as they're commonly announced in your own country? Is it pretentious to pronounce it the native way?

For example, do you say Paris or paw-ree? Chile or chee-lay? Barcelona or barthelona?

No, I pronounce it the way the word is pronounced locally.

[George & Bill]

It's not just across language barriers that things get messed up, as anyone who has heard a Brit say 'New Orleans', or an American say 'Loughborough', can attest.

[Mac15]

I would say going by Youtube that quite a few Americans pronounce "New Orleans" the same way as us... New orleens..

[filihok]

Originally Posted by CodyW

In Danish, it is spelled København. The Danes have a way of pronouncing things that is hard to emulate for this Swede, but it sounds like "Kew-bin-hauwn." The V in Danish turns into more of a W sound. And they live in Danmark, not Denmark.

Similarly, Sweden in Swedish is Sverige, but Stockholm is still Stockholm.

Swedes say that Danes speak like they have a potato (or other less appropriate to mention items) stuck in their throats.

København is Dansk for "Shopping harbor". Køb is the Danish verb "to shop" and havn is the word for harbor.

I found that the Swedes pronounce initial S's with more of a /sh/. Making their capital city Shtockholm.

Originally Posted by CodyW

True. It also has an alternate spelling, Göteborg. Though it would be more along the lines of Yuh-ta-borje. The R is there, but the G turns into the Swedish J sound, which is more like a Y in English.

This is a pretty cool website for hearing pronunciations.

Göteborg pronunciation: How to pronounce Göteborg in Swedish, German, Czech




In response to the OP's question, I attempt to say place names in the native language. Also, people's names. I'm not going to call Jorge, Giorgi, Göran, Gergish, Yuri, or Jordi "George".

[theunbrainwashed]

Originally Posted by owenc

I would say going by Youtube that quite a few Americans pronounce "New Orleans" the same way as us... New orleens..

Yeah there's that and also a lot of Americans that say new or-lee-ans. I think the locals say it the latter way, since it's closer to the French pronunciation (since it's actually spelled New Orléans). We have the same issues with a lot of people calling the city of Lancaster near me lan-cast-er whereas us locals call it LAN-cas-ter which is the proper pronunciation.

Originally Posted by George & Bill

It's not just across language barriers that things get messed up, as anyone who has heard a Brit say 'New Orleans', or an American say 'Loughborough', can attest.

How do you say Loughborough? There's a street in St. Louis, MO called Loughborough Ave. and the locals say it as loff-bu-roh as I do. How do Brits, specifically Scots, pronounce Pittsburgh?