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Mainly because we had a good friend there, and also to take the boat trip down the Yangtze past the Three Gorges. This was in 2006 before the final phase of the dam changed it forever. It was so smoggy that we were advised not to stay outdoors more than an hour. Most people wore masks. It was a really weird place, very lush and jungle-like, but also full of those 'dark satanic mills' spewing out smoke.
Is a lot of the hatred based on jealousy? Because of Mandarin being the official language? I can't think of many reasons to hate Beijing. Maybe it's the people there, an air of arrogance. How big is the Shanghai vs Beijing rivalry? Shanghai is kinda like LA and NY in one, while Beijing is more like Boston, DC.etc, but with more grit.
The Pearl River Delta is one of China's economic engines but it seems dull as dishwater, aside from Hong Kong.
The rivalry is real and it's mostly a north/south division though a lot of the interior, xinjiang, tibet, and sometimes the guangdong area also gets further divided from their regions. It's not just Mandarin as an official language (language politics aren't actually that active in China), but a lot more cultural and historical disdain and dislike.
Also, again, Shanghai as LA and NY in one is ridiculous. Beijing and Shanghai don't fit into the US molds we're talking about even roughly speaking. The center of media production is Beijing. The major corporate headquarters for domestic countries is generally Beijing. The tech center is Beijing. The intellectual center and the most prestigious schools are in Beijing. What Shanghai serves as is a gigantic port and a large interface with the rest of the global market and as an entry for foreign investment.
The Pearl River Delta's new cities are dull in a lot of ways. I wouldn't say the region as a whole is weird.
For future trips though, I definitely recommend at least some Mandarin speaking abilities. The experience of people who can speak Mandarin well in China and those who can't can and will differ by a lot. This is pretty much true of going to any country though.
Probably a stupid question, but is Rhine-Ruhr including Frankfurt? Because if so, then I would put that in front of Berlin in terms of overall prominence. I don't necessarily think of Berlin 1st when I think of Germany, though it is arguably the most famous/iconic/Germany's "door to the world". I generally think of Berlin as Germany's political capital, Frankfurt financial, and Munich cultural/historical, but that's just me.
I would also tend to think of Beijing as being more important than Shanghai. Everyone may not agree, but here's why. Shanghai is a more modern city with potentially a higher standard of living (?), and more of a financial center, yes, but while it's among the biggest financial centers in the world, I don't think the argument can be made (yet), that Shanghai is on par with any city in the world when it comes to financial center-ness (?), there are a few well ahead of it, as of now. That being said, I think in terms of political influence, the only city in the world that could POSSIBLY match it is Washington DC, and I'm not even sure decisions made there hold quite as much power. Beijing is the political heartbeat for 1.7 Billion people (nearly a quarter of the planet), and things penned in there affect, Shanghai, and the other 5-6 Billion people in the world a whole lot more than transactions that occur in Shanghai (IMO). Also, culturally, I don't know how much merit history has, but Beijing was the World's Biggest City over 500 years ago, and has remained among the top ever since, it has so many contributions to mankind within it's borders, that I think still effect the way things are done today.
As for the other portions of the question:
Consider Visiting-Any. Unless a city is severely boring, or severely unsafe, I want to see it. And so I would happily visit any of these places.
More Intrigued With-Beijing. While there, I could see the Great Wall and Forbidden City, and perhaps take an overnight train trip to see the Terra Cotta Warriors. Right there, in the course of a 5-7 day visit, I've hit 3 of arguably the Top 10 iconic wonders on the planet, 2 without even leaving town. Plus, all the influence I mentioned, the infrastructure, the other iconic sites and traditions (Peking Duck dinner and Kung Fu show at red theatre), etc. that city is at the very top of the list of places that I haven't been that I need to go to. Probably 2nd would be the Rhine-Ruhr region, and that might hold more long term merit for me for repeat visits, because I would definitely want to see the pastoral German countryside, coupled with European beauty of towns/cities, and German efficiency/modernity. Los Angeles is up there too, but I've been there on several occasions. If I hadn't already seen it and know it's fantastic (and do want to go back!) it would be higher on my list. Truly an area that has it all. Osaka appeals to me as well, but I honestly just don't know a whole lot about it compared with Kyoto/Tokyo.
Would Live In-Any, except possibly Beijing (living in a country that is still not entirely free IMO, would still have it's concerns.) I would live in any temporarily, though I'd far and away be most likely to live in LA, since uprooting from the US entirely would be quite difficult.
View Most Favorably-It depends on in what sense. I guess LA because it's the one of the group I've been too, and offers the most comfort and things I'm used to, plus amazing man-made and natural attractions and climate.
Special Things-LA: Climate, Scenery, Atmosphere/Dreamers Trying to Make a Name For Themselves, I'm sure an outstanding Creatives scene. Rhine-Ruhr: Outstanding charm and history, but with German efficiency, GREAT location. Beijing: Truly outstanding creations of man, Power, Power and More Power, underrated surrounding scenery, infrastructure. Osaka: Flies Under Radar, Proximity to Kyoto and Beautiful Settings, Transportation Infrastructure, Safety, Food I'm sure, attractions, etc.
Last edited by theurbanfiles; 09-03-2017 at 08:31 PM..
Probably a stupid question, but is Rhine-Ruhr including Frankfurt?
No, Rhine-Ruhr is a metropolis centered around Dusseldorf, Bonn, and Cologne and their auxiliary communities around them.
Germany has a collection of "the Big 5" metropolises; Hamburg, Munich, Frankfurt, Berlin, and Rhine-Ruhr. There is also Stuttgart as well, really a "Big 6" as all 6 are larger than 5 million people (with Rhine-Ruhr being the only official megacity of the 6 though). Germany has many other metropolitan regions as well exceeding 1 million people.
what do you expect from this forum, from which most participants are westerners and have very negative view of CHina
I mean Beijing is way more interesting and important both economically or politically than any of the cities mentioned here. It can easily be the top 5 cities in the world
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20
I asked the same thing in my Beijing vs Seoul poll in the Asia forum. Beijing just seems unpopular on this forum. Tellingly, few people on the forum seem to have even been there. I think they just get the impression that all Chinese cities are really polluted, crowded, full of boring architecture with no character. Beijing is actually one of the most fascinating cities I've been to. I've quite forgotten how interesting it is. It isn't the easiest city to get around, no, but would definitely put it above Osaka as far as interest goes, and Rhine-Ruhr. It's just so different from LA to compare it.
what do you expect from this forum, from which most participants are westerners and have very negative view of CHina
I mean Beijing is way more interesting and important both economically or politically than any of the cities mentioned here. It can easily be the top 5 cities in the world
It's definitely the most politically influential of the four, but I disagree with regards to economics. The GDP of Greater Los Angeles is 2-3x as large as the Beijing metro's GDP (depending on how you are measuring metro areas). Obviously GDP doesn't fully account for Beijing's influence over the Chinese economy (or the global economy for that matter), but it's certainly not 'way more important economically'.
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