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View Poll Results: Your choice?
Randstad 9 36.00%
Bay Area 13 52.00%
Combined option for "none", "confused at the moment", "I don't really know where to begin", "huh" 3 12.00%
Voters: 25. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-12-2013, 01:51 PM
 
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I think these two might be somewhat comparable. San Francisco metropolitan division has a population of 1.9 million to Amsterdam's 2.4 million I believe. The "urban areas" are each in the 6 million range while the larger conurbations Randstad (The Hague, Rotterdam, & Amsterdam) & Bay Area (San Jose, Oakland, & San Francisco) are each comprised of three "major" cities and filler towns, suburbs, and satellite settlements.

The population of each conurbation is in the 7 million range, 7.1-7.6 million in direct range I believe.

Either way, enough of the background. Which of these two areas appeal to you more? Which one are you more likely to visit first (or care for visiting)? Which one could you see yourself live in? What about either of these appeal to you?
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Old 01-12-2013, 05:42 PM
 
Location: Nob Hill, San Francisco, CA
2,346 posts, read 3,968,772 times
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SF Bay for everything. The weather alone in the Netherlands is awful IMO.
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Old 01-12-2013, 06:45 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
2,920 posts, read 5,217,550 times
Reputation: 3425
I would choose the Bay Area for living (better weather, not as densely populated, nice environment, probably cheaper) and the Randstad for visiting (more vibrant cities and towns, strong diversity, lots of things to do and see, easier to travel around).

I have the best of both worlds: where I live now has all the qualities of the Bay Area I just mentioned (well, except the weather ) and it is only 1.5 hour or so by train from the Randstad
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Old 01-12-2013, 07:41 PM
 
Location: Nob Hill, San Francisco, CA
2,346 posts, read 3,968,772 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LindavG View Post
I would choose the Bay Area for living (better weather, not as densely populated, nice environment, probably cheaper) and the Randstad for visiting (more vibrant cities and towns, strong diversity, lots of things to do and see, easier to travel around).

I have the best of both worlds: where I live now has all the qualities of the Bay Area I just mentioned (well, except the weather ) and it is only 1.5 hour or so by train from the Randstad
San Francisco is denser than Amsterdam.

Amsterdam has more land area than San Francisco but their population is the exact same. Their density is not though

Amsterdam 9,080/sq mi
San Francisco 17,179.2/sq mi

SF Bay Area could be more diverse than Randstad. Find me the numbers that compare to these then we'll talk.

Arab: 51,892
Czech: 19,471
Danish: 48,342
Dutch: 74,680
English: 508,883
French: 149,945
French Canadian: 23,267
German: 671,791
Greek: 36,277
Hungarian: 27,376
Irish: 585,669
Italian: 411,126
Lithuanian: 10,381
Norwegian: 85,320
Polish: 106,836
Portuguese: 115,795
Russian: 110,789
Scotch-Irish: 50,828
Scottish: 123,834
Slovak: 8,896
Subsaharan African: 55,458
Swedish: 96,931
Swiss: 29,182
Ukrainian: 19,880
Welsh: 38,763
West Indian: 9,163
Yemeni: 1,873
Afghan: 13,771
Egyptian: 6,238
Iraqi: 1,618
Jordanian: 2,681
Lebanese: 10,033
Morroccan: 1,750
Palestinian: 7,401
Syrian: 2,311
Armenian: 15,351
Australian: 4,646
Belgian: 7,197
Brazilian: 10,001
British: 44,076
Bulgarian: 3,239
Kenyan: 1,473
Canadian: 19,039
Croatian: 14,248
Finnish: 14,545
Icelander: 1,579
Iranian: 40,931
Israeli: 5,855
Latvian: 3,642
Luxemburger: 936
Macedonian: 717
Maltese: 4,105
Norwegian: 89,391
Romanian: 12,858
Scandinavian: 15,471
Serbian: 3,477
Slavic: 3,265
Slovene: 2,400
Ethiopian: 9,878
Nigerian: 5,346
South African: 1,649
Turkish: 6,315
Haitian: 1,503
Jamaican: 5,099
Trinidadian: 1,212
Yugoslavian: 10,203
Mexican: 1,412,225
Puerto Rican: 44,234
Cuban: 13,721
Dominican: 2,690
Costa Rican: 4,800
Guatemalen: 44,252
Honduran: 8,714
Nicaraguan: 39,383
Panamanian: 5,350
Salvadoran: 107,076
Argentinean: 8,368
Bolivian: 3,597
Chilean: 7,294
Colombian: 10,171
Ecuadorian: 5,752
Paraguayan: 550
Peruvian: 28,793
Uruguayan: 217
Venezuelan: 2,950
Spaniard: 43,182
Spanish: 21,153
Asian Indian: 271,357
Chinese: 590,881
Filipino: 388,375
Japanese: 75,576
Korean: 75,988
Vietnamese: 185,697

They are similar in population both 7M. If Randstad is as diverse as you're making it out to be find me the numbers to each of those groups and show me where it surpasses the SF Bay Area I am sure it surpasses SF Bay Area in some groups but put your money where your mouth is and I know that it's going to look more diverse by foreign born because folks from one European country traverse to another the way we traverse from one state in the US to another. So some overseas groups from Africa, Australia, Asia, South America, etc is in order.

btw, you haven't been to San Francisco if you think it lacks in things to do, I will agree Randstad has more vibrant cities but things to do? No.

btw, SF Bay Area is denser than Randstad, really you're telling me a place that barely connects from one city to another is denser than a continuously built up environment that rings the mouth of the San Francisco Bay?

Randstad http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...with_scale.png

vs.

This http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ayareaUSGS.jpg

Not even close IMO.
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Old 01-12-2013, 09:12 PM
 
Location: In the heights
36,879 posts, read 38,770,960 times
Reputation: 20889
Randstad overall. In the Bay Area, I like parts of the North Bay, East Bay, and SF itself, but outside of those and a select few other places, the Bay Area is pretty lacking. Silicon Valley might an incredible driver for the economy and technology, but I refused what would be great job offers that asked for relocation to there. I find Amsterdam to be a lot more international than the Bay Area in a lot of ways, but I think that's a large result of it being a part of a fairly small nation therefore much more receptive to media and other things from outside the Dutch culture whereas the US's popular culture is really the only common point of reference for pretty much everyone in the Bay Area and any kind of non-US influence is often really specific to whatever ethnic group you belong to. I pretty much like all four major cities in the Randstad and like them quite a lot, and while SF is great, I find it oddly provincial compared to Amsterdam and there aren't too many compelling cities for me outside of SF and parts of Oakland in the area whereas the Randstad has four amazing larger cities and plenty of beautiful smaller ones.

The Bay Area's weather is better (for me), but I don't find Amsterdam's all that bad. And yea, I definitely find the Randstad cities to be a lot more active overall than the Bay Area's including SF which probably has to be the massive number of people who use bikes, walk, or transit compared to in the Bay Area or even SF specifically. SF does sort of hit pretty big peaks, but outside that not quite the same. I imagine SF would be a lot more like that once the kinda crappy (pretty good for the US though) MUNI does a better build out. Oh, also weed and whores. Hooray! Also, way more attractive people overall. The Bay Area seems to incubate a kind of frumpishness save for place like North Beach which gives a hot hoity-toity milf kind of thing.

Last edited by OyCrumbler; 01-12-2013 at 09:33 PM..
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Old 01-12-2013, 09:22 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
2,920 posts, read 5,217,550 times
Reputation: 3425
LOL, I knew it wouldn't be long before Scrantix would show up.

I wasn't even talking about that kind of diversity. I just mean diversity between the kind of cities and towns that are in the Randstad. Amsterdam and Rotterdam are like two different worlds. Amsterdam is all about history and art, full of museums, traditional old mansions and palaces, the canals, etc. Rotterdam was heavily bombed during WW2 so most of its historical centre is gone, nowadays it is famous for its modern architecture, sky scrapers, harbour, etc. Amsterdam is associated with leisure culture, Rotterdam with a hard-working culture. And yet it only takes half an hour by train to travel from one city to the other. Then there's The Hague (also 30 minutes from Amsterdam or Rotterdam by train) which is again an entirely different kind of city, mostly known for its many international political/legislative institutions and being the seat of the Dutch government. All three cities have a population of over 500,000. And then there are many traditional towns like Delft and Gouda which are also highly popular with tourists (Delft is known for the "Delft's Blue" china and Gouda is known for the cheese). The Bay Area simply does not have this kind of diversity within such a small area so as a visitor, I would prefer to spend my time in the Randstad.

Btw, since you asked about diversity: Amsterdam, Rotterdam and The Hague all have a ~50% foreign origin population and the largest immigrant groups come from non-Western countries (Surinam, Morocco, Turkey).

You really think the Bay Area is denser than the Randstad? The Randstad is one of the most densely populated areas in the world. It has a population of 7.1 million spread over 8,287 km2 (3,200 sq mi) of land. The Bay Area doesn't even come close to that. It has a population of 7.1 million spread over 18,088 km² (6,984 sq. mi.) of land. That's over twice as much!

Also, the fact that you think the Randstad is barely connected shows how utterly clueless you are, lol.
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Old 01-12-2013, 09:40 PM
 
Location: In the heights
36,879 posts, read 38,770,960 times
Reputation: 20889
Quote:
Originally Posted by LindavG View Post
LOL, I knew it wouldn't be long before Scrantix would show up.

I wasn't even talking about that kind of diversity. I just mean diversity between the kind of cities and towns that are in the Randstad. Amsterdam and Rotterdam are like two different worlds. Amsterdam is all about history and art, full of museums, traditional old mansions and palaces, the canals, etc. Rotterdam was heavily bombed during WW2 so most of its historical centre is gone, nowadays it is famous for its modern architecture, sky scrapers, harbour, etc. Amsterdam is associated with leisure culture, Rotterdam with a hard-working culture. And yet it only takes half an hour by train to travel from one city to the other. Then there's The Hague (also 30 minutes from Amsterdam or Rotterdam by train) which is again an entirely different kind of city, mostly known for its many international political/legislative institutions and being the seat of the Dutch government. All three cities have a population of over 500,000. And then there are many traditional towns like Delft and Gouda which are also highly popular with tourists (Delft is known for the "Delft's Blue" china and Gouda is known for the cheese). The Bay Area simply does not have this kind of diversity within such a small area so as a visitor, I would prefer to spend my time in the Randstad. Basically, it's American style development (even if more densely concentrated) versus European style development and with a far lesser emphasis on car-driven sprawl.

Btw, since you asked about diversity: Amsterdam, Rotterdam and The Hague all have a ~50% foreign origin population and the largest immigrant groups come from non-Western countries (Surinam, Morocco, Turkey).

You really think the Bay Area is denser than the Randstad? The Randstad is one of the most densely populated areas in the world. It has a population of 7.1 million spread over 8,287 km2 (3,200 sq mi) of land. The Bay Area doesn't even come close to that. It has a population of 7.1 million spread over 18,088 km² (6,984 sq. mi.) of land. That's over twice as much!

Also, the fact that you think the Randstad is barely connected shows how utterly clueless you are, lol.
I think there's a strong difference within those stats due to almost all development being along the rim of the Bay itself which concentrates people rather than the flatlands of the Netherlands. Much of the Bay Area's area is sparsely or not populated at all due to that. On the other hand, a lot of that population along the Bay's rim is actually densely developed suburban sprawl which is not nearly as interesting as the network of concentrated small cities, towns, and villages that the Randstad has. Overall, I vastly prefer how the Randstad has developed as it means much more active and I guess neighborly concentrations of human development.
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Old 01-12-2013, 09:49 PM
 
520 posts, read 594,380 times
Reputation: 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by LindavG View Post
I would choose the Bay Area for living (better weather, not as densely populated, nice environment, probably cheaper) and the Randstad for visiting (more vibrant cities and towns, strong diversity, lots of things to do and see, easier to travel around).

I have the best of both worlds: where I live now has all the qualities of the Bay Area I just mentioned (well, except the weather ) and it is only 1.5 hour or so by train from the Randstad
Is the Bay Area really cheaper?

I actually think the two are really hard to compare from the standpoint of choosing between them. I've lived in the Bay Area, and been to Amsterdam more times than I can remember, and I simply cannot pick one over the other.

The weather....yes....nothing beats the Bay Area....except - in my opinion - Sonoma County weather...
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Old 01-12-2013, 09:51 PM
 
606 posts, read 2,577,785 times
Reputation: 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrantiX View Post
San Francisco is denser than Amsterdam.

Amsterdam has more land area than San Francisco but their population is the exact same. Their density is not though

Amsterdam 9,080/sq mi
San Francisco 17,179.2/sq mi

SF Bay Area could be more diverse than Randstad. Find me the numbers that compare to these then we'll talk.

Arab: 51,892
Czech: 19,471
Danish: 48,342
Dutch: 74,680
English: 508,883
French: 149,945
French Canadian: 23,267
German: 671,791
Greek: 36,277
Hungarian: 27,376
Irish: 585,669
Italian: 411,126
Lithuanian: 10,381
Norwegian: 85,320
Polish: 106,836
Portuguese: 115,795
Russian: 110,789
Scotch-Irish: 50,828
Scottish: 123,834
Slovak: 8,896
Subsaharan African: 55,458
Swedish: 96,931
Swiss: 29,182
Ukrainian: 19,880
Welsh: 38,763
West Indian: 9,163
Yemeni: 1,873
Afghan: 13,771
Egyptian: 6,238
Iraqi: 1,618
Jordanian: 2,681
Lebanese: 10,033
Morroccan: 1,750
Palestinian: 7,401
Syrian: 2,311
Armenian: 15,351
Australian: 4,646
Belgian: 7,197
Brazilian: 10,001
British: 44,076
Bulgarian: 3,239
Kenyan: 1,473
Canadian: 19,039
Croatian: 14,248
Finnish: 14,545
Icelander: 1,579
Iranian: 40,931
Israeli: 5,855
Latvian: 3,642
Luxemburger: 936
Macedonian: 717
Maltese: 4,105
Norwegian: 89,391
Romanian: 12,858
Scandinavian: 15,471
Serbian: 3,477
Slavic: 3,265
Slovene: 2,400
Ethiopian: 9,878
Nigerian: 5,346
South African: 1,649
Turkish: 6,315
Haitian: 1,503
Jamaican: 5,099
Trinidadian: 1,212
Yugoslavian: 10,203
Mexican: 1,412,225
Puerto Rican: 44,234
Cuban: 13,721
Dominican: 2,690
Costa Rican: 4,800
Guatemalen: 44,252
Honduran: 8,714
Nicaraguan: 39,383
Panamanian: 5,350
Salvadoran: 107,076
Argentinean: 8,368
Bolivian: 3,597
Chilean: 7,294
Colombian: 10,171
Ecuadorian: 5,752
Paraguayan: 550
Peruvian: 28,793
Uruguayan: 217
Venezuelan: 2,950
Spaniard: 43,182
Spanish: 21,153
Asian Indian: 271,357
Chinese: 590,881
Filipino: 388,375
Japanese: 75,576
Korean: 75,988
Vietnamese: 185,697

They are similar in population both 7M. If Randstad is as diverse as you're making it out to be find me the numbers to each of those groups and show me where it surpasses the SF Bay Area I am sure it surpasses SF Bay Area in some groups but put your money where your mouth is and I know that it's going to look more diverse by foreign born because folks from one European country traverse to another the way we traverse from one state in the US to another. So some overseas groups from Africa, Australia, Asia, South America, etc is in order.

btw, you haven't been to San Francisco if you think it lacks in things to do, I will agree Randstad has more vibrant cities but things to do? No.

btw, SF Bay Area is denser than Randstad, really you're telling me a place that barely connects from one city to another is denser than a continuously built up environment that rings the mouth of the San Francisco Bay?

Randstad http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...with_scale.png

vs.

This http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ayareaUSGS.jpg

Not even close IMO.
Actually its far from being a good comparison, most of those germans, dutch, arabs, etc living in bay area are just random american citizens living there for many generations (usually mix of irish, british, german and dash of italian) who selfreport the ancestry they feel more akin to, but in trality they are mainly americans,raised in america, behave like americans, think like americans, etc. The immigrant groups in Randstad(and europe for that matter) are mostly recent transplants, who are true 100% arabs, dutch, germans, russians,etc and who think different and have their own traditions which dont fit in the mainstream culture they are currently residing.
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Old 01-12-2013, 10:08 PM
 
Location: In the heights
36,879 posts, read 38,770,960 times
Reputation: 20889
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don_Caballero View Post
Actually its far from being a good comparison, most of those germans, dutch, arabs, etc living in bay area are just random american citizens living there for many generations (usually mix of irish, british, german and dash of italian) who selfreport the ancestry they feel more akin to, but in trality they are mainly americans,raised in america, behave like americans, think like americans, etc. The immigrant groups in Randstad(and europe for that matter) are mostly recent transplants, who are true 100% arabs, dutch, germans, russians,etc and who think different and have their own traditions which dont fit in the mainstream culture they are currently residing.
San Francisco's foreign-born is lower at 36.7% than that of Rotterdam or Amsterdam, but come from outside the general region (Europe) which can be arguably more diversity (though the fact that no other countries outside of parts of Belgium speak the Dutch language does keep things somewhat separate which is meaningful). Added to that is that a lot of second and third generation immigrants, especially when the community is quite large, still keep a lot of cultural values and practices even after being immersed in America for quite a bit. Overall, the major cities of both regions are quite diverse though the metropolitan area of the Bay Area is more ethnically diverse than the Randstad.
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