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ScrantiX, there's no need to tell me about crime. I've lived in LA, Toronto, and Brooklyn. I've seen the parallels. In what Philly is to SF in crime is what SF is to Toronto. We all know Philly has a crime issue but it's not just Philly's problem. It's the lack of vision at the federal level that lets those "sickos" become what they are.
There is no short term solution. Pricing them out is disastrous to the city they move to. Short term solutions don't work and you're right it takes a few generations to make the change. In the mean time we need better schools, better teachers, and better understanding of the parents' role in their child's life. A kid that grows up around negative influences will pick up on them because his vision of right and wrong is altered. That's the issue the US needs to come to terms with.
I agree it's disheartening to see crime get by so easily but things change one day at a time. And no ones arguing that Philly is as safe as SF, it's not but you're hatred of crime has spilled over as a hatred for Philly and that's wrong too. You, as an American should be wishing for its recovery not for it's demise because it doesn't fit your view of a safe society. I know homicides and rape are frustrating and life alternating events, that leave rifts and voids in the lives of victims and their families, I agree with you but you need to get a grip. Philly can improve, year by year, and it has from the dark 80's and 90's. It's come a long way, and it's crime issues are still not acceptable but changes occur over time, not overnight. You really should give Philly a chance to fix itself. It's not a bad city, I wouldn't call it one of the best in the world but it's improving slowly on crime.
The amount you hate it and the way you direct it to its crime and rough areas, I feel its necessary to ask if you or someone you know have ever been victims to crime there?
I like Philly, it's a good city and yes it is boosted often more than it should but it's not given the attention it deserves and that causes its locals to have a chip on their shoulder because the city offers identical things to Boston, Dallas, SF and its rarely given credit for it. Tearing it up every chance you get for crime proves nothing.
I also think both you and Montclair need to stop acting like Charlie Sheen. I can never decide which one of you are more extreme, both have their moments.
Isn't it 7 AM over there? Why are you people up so late?
Barcelona has good subway/buses/trambus because the city has a very small surface in comparison to any American city. For example, I can walk from Sants to Diagonal Mar in 2 hours, the two places are extremes inside Barcelona's municipality (not including conurban municipalities).
Anyways, comparing Barcelona to Philly is like comparing pears and apples because the two places are entirely different.
Your way of simplifying this is pretty much why we're screwed. The Salvation Army and volunteering at soup kitchens are palliatives and people who would disagree with how myopic your position is aren't going to always fall into that camp. Bad people don't just appear out of nowhere. Criminals aren't made from magic gollums and generalizing criminality as the work of "sickos" and stopping there without much thought or research would be wonderful if it had ever worked. The kind of underlining assumptions about someone who disagrees with you being made here (prevention and rehabilitation is equal to excusing crimes or being unsympathetic to victims? does that not sound like another ridiculously stupid thing to have written?) is illustrative of how much some people completely misunderstand crime/criminality in the US. Well, enjoy your cycle of violence.
No it doesnt sound dumb Oy. Unlike you I dont think I am Buddha with solutions to everything. Rehabiliation? Really? You want to rehabilitate a guy like Ted Bundy (deceased) or James Holmes? Sickos is the only way to describe folks like that, Ted was a rapist, has raped over 40 women in his life, then killed them and performed necrophilia on their dead bodies and collected their human remains and bones out of his sick twisted fantasies. Over a dozen of his victims havent even been found yet, those families will never get the closure with their loved ones because of a sickos sick wet fantasies as a serial killer. James Holmes walked into a theater in Aurora and shot dead over 15 people and permanently injured 30 others, then booby trapped his apartment to explode when cops get there writing in his diary "visit me in jail". How is that for a sicko? You want to rehabilitate folks like that? Ok, let me know how that works out.
You really think mayors and governors around the US care about wasting federal funds to rehabilitate people like that? Those folks are psychologically too destroyed to be saved.
Yes, you can fix schools and create a better society so future generations dont end up that way but really your short term solution is rehabilitate folks that are that deranged? k..
We are done with this conversation Oy, there is obviously nothing we will agree on as a solution and I have made it obvious I wont ever respect Philly and that's that. This is the last time I will ever quote you, there is nothing more to say to each other, I think its time you move on and save another soul from disliking Philly and crime, because it aint gonna be me.
I also think both you and Montclair need to stop acting like Charlie Sheen. I can never decide which one of you are more extreme, both have their moments.
Isn't it 7 AM over there? Why are you people up so late?
No it doesnt sound dumb Oy. Unlike you I dont pretend I am Buddha with solutions to everything. Rehabiliation? LOL really? You want to rehabilitate a guy like Ted Bundy (deceased) or James Holmes? Sickos is the only way to describe folks like that, Ted was a rapist, has raped over 40 women in his life, then killed them and performed necrophilia on their dead bodies and collected their human remains and bones out of his sick twisted fantasies. James Holmes walked into a theater in Aurora and shot dead over 15 people and permanently injured 30 others, then booby trapped his apartment to explode when cops get there writing in his diary "visit me in jail". How is that for a sicko? You want to rehabilitate folks like that? Ok, Jesus, let me know how that works out.
You really think mayors and governors around the US care about wasting federal funds to rehabilitate people like that? Those folks are psychologically too destroyed to be saved.
Yes, you can fix schools and create a better society so future generations dont end up that way but really your short term solution is rehabilitate folks that are that deranged? k..
We are done with this conversation Oy, there is obviously nothing we will agree on as a solution and I have made it obvious I wont ever respect Philly and that's that. This is the last time I will ever quote you, there is nothing more to say to each other, I think its time you move on and save another soul from disliking Philly and crime, because it aint gonna be me.
You're completely missing the picture here. Did I say anything about rehabilitating serial killers/rapists who would unlikely to ever be reformable? You have an incredible inability to actually reason through what other people are saying and then jump through one assumption to another (which I just mentioned in the post you quoted) almost as if on cue. What is it that keeps your synapses from snapping properly?
You're completely missing the picture here. Did I say anything about rehabilitating serial killers/rapists who would unlikely to ever be reformable? You have an incredible inability to actually reason through what other people are saying and then jump through one assumption to another (which I just mentioned in the post you quoted) almost as if on cue. What is it that keeps your synapses from snapping properly?
Your approach to criminals was to rehabilitate them, I knew you were talking about the minor ones that can still turn around but we were talking about rapists and murderers. This topic about Philly's crime has been about rapists and murderers, maybe if you paid attention to the homicide convo from earlier you would know that, you know folks that are too deranged to ever redeem themselves. IDK why you even brought up rehabilitation if it doesnt solve that problem. I even said "why rehabilitate and reeducate criminals when theyre hopeless cases" WTH did you think I was talking about? Burglars? Thefts? Child porn picture takers? No, it was murderers and rapists........ MURDERERS AND RAPISTS... you know... sort of the topic of this crime discussion. Glad you admit the petty murderers and rapists cant be rehabilitation, there goes your solution out the window. It wasn't going to work anyway, no sane civic leader would waste time and money on the deranged and hopeless like that. Those folks are to deranged to be helped IMO.
Thats been my point, there are those you can help and those you cant. Short term solution is hope they leave the community, the rapists and murderers and go run amuck somewhere else. You can help petty thieves, burglars, pedos, etc but I dont consider them criminals as much as I do desperate. They rob you at gun point, great, give them your wallet and cancel your discover card and get a new one, life goes on. Your wife gets raped or killed, your life just got a whole lot worse because of the deranged. Two different classes of criminals buddy, they even make different prisons for hardcores like rapists and murderers to keep them away from the petty violators... that's how harmful they are to society and they cant be changed. Would you trust them on the streets again?
Your approach to criminals was to rehabilitate them, I knew you were talking about the minor ones that can still turn around but we were talking about rapists and murderers. This topic about Philly's crime has been about rapists and murderers, maybe if you paid attention to the homicide convo from earlier you would know that, you know folks that are too deranged to ever redeem themselves. IDK why you even brought up rehabilitation if it doesnt solve that problem. I even said "why rehabilitate and reeducate criminals when theyre hopeless cases" WTH did you think I was talking about? Burglars? Thefts? Child porn picture takers? No, it was murderers and rapists........ MURDERERS AND RAPISTS... you know... sort of the topic of this crime discussion. Glad you admit the petty murderers and rapists cant be rehabilitation, there goes your solution out the window. It wasn't going to work anyway, no sane civic leader would waste time and money on the deranged and hopeless like that. Those folks are to deranged to be helped IMO.
#kthnxgoodnite
You went straight to serial killers and rapists--not the kind of crime most people are talking about nor the kind of crime that gets the body counts for Philadelphia or the Bay Area. Do you have any idea what crime in the United States is like? Once again, you seem to have some crazy underlying assumptions that aren't born out of anything.
And it was rehabilitation and prevention (i.e. change the conditions that cause people to become criminals rather than the amazing solution of just slowly pushing people out further and further into the boondocks).
You went straight to serial killers and rapists--not the kind of crime most people are talking about nor the kind of crime that gets the body counts for Philadelphia or the Bay Area. Do you have any idea what crime in the United States is like? Once again, you seem to have some crazy underlying assumptions that aren't born out of anything.
And it was rehabilitation and prevention (i.e. change the conditions that cause people to become criminals rather than the amazing solution of just slowly pushing people out further and further into the boondocks).
This thread has become amazing!
Who is most people? The only crime I ever talk about are murderers and rapists. I was talking to rovian about murderers and rapists, you wanted to butt in and join the convo with your solutions. Thats your fault.
Yes I know what crime is, there are stats for gun related murders in Philly and rapes in Philly... welcome to the topic of discussion Oy. I also know what crime in the US is like, more petty thefts, GTA, and burglaries but this convo is about murders and rape. Do you have a solution to murderers and rapists for the short term? Yay or nay?
Dont go all Buddha on me, you threw out your rehabilitation solution. Its not a real solution to rape and murders.
You fail to comprehend that San Francisco is a TINY city that was swiftly able to price out poverty, very similar to DC today.
Philadelphia still has working class people, children and families, as well a good amount of people in poverty that live in the city. I know someone from San Francisco wouldn't understand, but most major cities in the US do. New York, Chicago, LA.
Philadelphia is about 3 times the geographic size of San Francisco, Boston, DC and has safe areas and not so safe areas. Almost half of all murders in Philadelphia take place in North Philly, which is why many Philadelphians, like you with The Bay's crime problems are lackadaisical about it. I however am not because my good friend was killed the summer after our high school graduation.
De-industrialization and The War on "drugs" contribute the most to America's problem with crime. Philadelphia was once the "workshop of the world" and might have been effected the most by de-industrialization. Almost all violent crime is drug related or domestic. I am very anti-War on "drugs" and believe ending the longest and costliest war in US history (which happens to solely be fought in areas with little opportunity after manufacturing left the country) will be a huge step to addressing inner city crime.
Moderator cut: personal remarks
Last edited by Marka; 02-02-2013 at 01:55 AM..
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