Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
2,500,000 members. Thank you!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > World
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 07-24-2022, 11:12 PM
 
Location: Brisbane
5,020 posts, read 7,406,053 times
Reputation: 4466

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by herenow1 View Post
About 400,000 people of African origin were living in Australia in 2020. This represents 1.6% of the Australian population and 5.1% of Australia's overseas-born population. Most (58%) are white South Africans but 42% are black Africans from sub-Saharan countries.

New Zealand also has a lot of South Africans as well. The largest expat South African community is the UK. Many South Africans also have settled in Canada and USA, and also the oil rich gulf countries too. Dubai has 50 000 South Africans living there.
The huge majority of the UK south Africans are English speaking people, who are Eligible for British Citizenship by birthright. (I have British Citizenship myself, due to exactly that reason), they are not Afrikaans speakers.

What is the source of your post ? Surely you know that Australia does not collect any data about the race of its population outside of Aboriginal?

On Further review the exact total of people born in African in Australia in 2021 was 444,346 of 24,064,130 respondents, which is 1.84% of the population (I did just took the first 100 most common nationalities as a base of been indicative of the remaining 136 nationalities nominate in the census, Africa as a continent is very over represented in those 136) , 228,921 of them were born in South Africa or Zimbabwe representing 51.5% of total African immigrant Population, and not all the South Africans or Zimbabweans in Australia are white.

If you bothered to check their is also massive problem with whites farmers been killed by insurgents or forced from their land by government policy in both Zimbabwe and South Africa, do you think that is acceptable?

Last edited by danielsa1775; 07-25-2022 at 12:33 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-25-2022, 12:21 AM
 
1,764 posts, read 1,000,314 times
Reputation: 1940
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielsa1775 View Post
The huge majority of the UK south Africans are English speaking people, who are Eligible for British Citizenship by birthright. (I have British Citizenship myself, due to exactly that reason), they are not Afrikaans speakers.

What is the source of your post ? Surely you know that Australia does not collect any data about the race of its population outside of Aboriginal?

The exact total of people born in African in Australia in 2021 was 444,346 of 24,064,130 respondents, which is 1.84% of the population, whatever portion of the 1,358,658 Australians who chose not to nominate a country of birth were born in Africa who knows?
Well yes Australia does collect data for race and for the 2011 Census, as with 2006, respondents were asked to mark the ancestries they most closely identified with and to consider their ancestry back as far as two generations (i.e. their parents and grandparents). https://www.abs.gov.au/websitedbs/ce...ent&navpos=450

Well there is a BBC article states there are Afrikaan speakers in UK, especially LOndon An estimated 10 million people worldwide speak Afrikaans as a first language. Of those living in the UK, the largest population is in London.https://www.bbc.co.uk/voices/multili...frikaans.shtml

South Africans of any background can get working visas in the UK, just like Australians.

With UK residency, only if you have a grandparent you can be eligible for UK citizenship. I have had a grandparent born over there so I am eligible. However it is rather hard immigrating to the UK if you are eligible. It the same with Ireland and many countries in Europe too and if you don't have any parent or grandparent born there you are not eigible for citizenship. So that rules out so many Afrikaaners. However many of them go over there to study and work over there or come as skilled workers and apply for permanent citizenship.

HOwever there are some EAstern Europe countries with Populalist regimes that are open to accept White South Africans as immigrants. Russia a few years ago welcomed White South African farmers to move to Russia provide they invest in a lot of money there. Same with Georgia.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-25-2022, 01:40 AM
 
Location: Brisbane
5,020 posts, read 7,406,053 times
Reputation: 4466
Quote:
Originally Posted by herenow1 View Post
Well yes Australia does collect data for race and for the 2011 Census, as with 2006, respondents were asked to mark the ancestries they most closely identified with and to consider their ancestry back as far as two generations (i.e. their parents and grandparents). https://www.abs.gov.au/websitedbs/ce...ent&navpos=450

Well there is a BBC article states there are Afrikaan speakers in UK, especially LOndon An estimated 10 million people worldwide speak Afrikaans as a first language. Of those living in the UK, the largest population is in London.https://www.bbc.co.uk/voices/multili...frikaans.shtml

South Africans of any background can get working visas in the UK, just like Australians.

With UK residency, only if you have a grandparent you can be eligible for UK citizenship. I have had a grandparent born over there so I am eligible. However it is rather hard immigrating to the UK if you are eligible. It the same with Ireland and many countries in Europe too and if you don't have any parent or grandparent born there you are not eligible for citizenship. So that rules out so many Afrikaaners. However many of them go over there to study and work over there or come as skilled workers and apply for permanent citizenship.

HOwever there are some EAstern Europe countries with Populalist regimes that are open to accept White South Africans as immigrants. Russia a few years ago welcomed White South African farmers to move to Russia provide they invest in a lot of money there. Same with Georgia.
Thant is not race related, it ancestry based, I have two half Asian Children myself (My wife is Korean), and have only ever marked them as Australian of Ancestry, they are not Korean, they , don't think of themselves as Korean, and having been to the country many times I know that Koreans themselves would never identify my children as Korean either, Australian is the ancestry I feel they would most closely identified with.

The reality is that given that definition was taken 100% literally the majority of the US population regardless of race would end up as marking ancestry as "American" when in reality its like 7% of the population that do.

The fact that Australia lets you nominate more than 1 ancestry (Resulting in 140 responses to ever person) complicates things a lot from trying to get any meaningful race data as well, especially given that the older white European population are the most likely to nominate more than 1 ancestry, while the more recent immigrants are more likely to say one.

Last edited by danielsa1775; 07-25-2022 at 02:21 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-25-2022, 02:36 AM
 
1,764 posts, read 1,000,314 times
Reputation: 1940
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielsa1775 View Post
Thant is not race related, it ancestry based, I have two half Asian Children myself (My wife is Korean), and have only ever marked them as Australian of Ancestry, they are not Korean, they , don't think of themselves as Korean, and having been to the country many times I know that Koreans themselves would never identify my children as Korean either, Australian is the ancestry I feel they would most closely identified with.

The reality is that given that definition was taken 100% literally the majority of the US population regardless of race would end up as marking ancestry as "American" when in reality its like 7% , that is especially true among the African American population which are largely the decedents of slaves who came more 150 years ago, and would be totally lost in Africa itself.
Well it depends, so many Australians identify with a common background, such as Irish, Italian, Greek, Chinese and Lebanese. I have encounted many people who obviously born in Australia but say they are italian, Greek, and Vietnemese.

However America is a society where ethnic idenity seems more prominent than Australia. I guess it is due to America being even much more historically diverse than Australia. Australia was largely monocultural for most of its most of its modern history, where a typical person would if born here label themselves as Australian as first and it been like that for a really long time. With sevearal American friends I have, a few of them say they are Irish more if they identify themselves than identifying themselves as American if referring to their heritage, just because either their grandparent or great grandparent was there, and say things such as St Pats day is "my favourite day of the year". However they have no real connection to present day Ireland nor ever been there, nor even been outside America. However in Australia I don't see that much with people born here with an Irish grandparent. With the Black Americans I know, they identify themselves as Black and see themselves as distinct compared to the Whites.

IN America most Blacks also have some European background. BTW the author of Roots which was made into a movie, stated he went to his ansestoral village in Africa and noticed his skin was not as dark as the people in that village in Africa. But a black person would not label himself as White, just like Obama who mother was white, he identified himself as Black.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-25-2022, 03:14 AM
 
Location: Australia
3,602 posts, read 2,255,198 times
Reputation: 6931
Ancestry is definitely different to race and it is probably appropriate that we are able to nominate more than one ancestory. One of our closest friends is South African born but his parents were Greek. His wife is German, one of their kids is married to a Phillipino, one to a Sri Lankan Australian ,one to a half-Chinese Australian and one to an Anglo. I have no idea what they all nominate for the grandchildren’s ancestory but there are certainly a few possibilities.
My own grandkids have ancestory of English, Scottish, Irish, French German and Italian but I know their parents simply nominate Australian.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-25-2022, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,705 posts, read 37,526,805 times
Reputation: 11501
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielsa1775 View Post

If you bothered to check their is also massive problem with whites farmers been killed by insurgents or forced from their land by government policy in both Zimbabwe and South Africa, do you think that is acceptable?
With all due respect, I don't think herenow1 made any reference to that - unless I missed it?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-25-2022, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,705 posts, read 37,526,805 times
Reputation: 11501
Quote:
Originally Posted by herenow1 View Post

With UK residency, only if you have a grandparent you can be eligible for UK citizenship. I have had a grandparent born over there so I am eligible. However it is rather hard immigrating to the UK if you are eligible. It the same with Ireland and many countries in Europe too and if you don't have any parent or grandparent born there you are not eigible for citizenship. So that rules out so many Afrikaaners. However many of them go over there to study and work over there or come as skilled workers and apply for permanent citizenship.
.
These residual British Empire quirks are interesting.

Around the time of the Brexit vote, a Canadian relative of mine was living in the UK and was eligible to vote in the referendum simply by virtue of being Canadian. This is someone with AFAIK no British heritage - almost all French as you can imagine - and didn't even speak much English until they were well into their 20s.

Ironically, their spouse who was a citizen of an EU country, was not eligible to vote.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-25-2022, 10:43 AM
 
50 posts, read 24,761 times
Reputation: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by herenow1 View Post
Most Sub-Saharan people here in Australia are European background, especially from South African and Zimbabwe. A majority of them are of British origin. A large majority of people of North West Europe background are from UK and Ireland and it has always been the case since the colonial days. But immigration has changed and a majority of people immigrating to Australia are from Asian countries. Plus you have so many international students coming to study in Australia. A majority will eventually live permanenty in Australia and a large majority of them are from Asia.

I notice the internatinal students are not poor, and also I admit it is quite rare seeing an Asian here in poverty too. But it is not unusual seeing Aborigines in poverty here as well as white people.

Australia, and New Zealand which now has a large Asian minority, and most immigrants to New Zealand are from Asia. It seems a higher proportion of immigrants in Australia and New Zealand are from Asia, and Canada too. Both Australia, New Zealand and Canada tend to have a higher proportion of Asian immigrants compared to USA and UK.

Immigrants to Australia, New Zealand and Canada more tend to be highly skilled or are highly educated, compared to the USA, due to the visa requirements one can be allowed to move there.
“Higher proportion of Asian immigrants” - there are 25 million Asian Americans. That’s too significant to ignore by shifting the focus to proportions.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-25-2022, 10:47 AM
 
50 posts, read 24,761 times
Reputation: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by herenow1 View Post
Well it depends, so many Australians identify with a common background, such as Irish, Italian, Greek, Chinese and Lebanese. I have encounted many people who obviously born in Australia but say they are italian, Greek, and Vietnemese.

However America is a society where ethnic idenity seems more prominent than Australia. I guess it is due to America being even much more historically diverse than Australia. Australia was largely monocultural for most of its most of its modern history, where a typical person would if born here label themselves as Australian as first and it been like that for a really long time. With sevearal American friends I have, a few of them say they are Irish more if they identify themselves than identifying themselves as American if referring to their heritage, just because either their grandparent or great grandparent was there, and say things such as St Pats day is "my favourite day of the year". However they have no real connection to present day Ireland nor ever been there, nor even been outside America. However in Australia I don't see that much with people born here with an Irish grandparent. With the Black Americans I know, they identify themselves as Black and see themselves as distinct compared to the Whites.

IN America most Blacks also have some European background. BTW the author of Roots which was made into a movie, stated he went to his ansestoral village in Africa and noticed his skin was not as dark as the people in that village in Africa. But a black person would not label himself as White, just like Obama who mother was white, he identified himself as Black.
Second paragraph is confused. Americans will say they’re American - if asked about their ancestral roots or ethnic background they’ll explain. Foreigners try to claim Americans put ethnic identities before their own national identities, they don’t.

Australia and Canada have much smaller populations due to their more reduced legacy of immigration and the more homogeneous immigration they received for much longer. Whereas the US has a much more complex colonial settlement pattern, involving as it did many European nations and African slavery, and it only got more diverse from there.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-25-2022, 03:17 PM
 
Location: Brisbane
5,020 posts, read 7,406,053 times
Reputation: 4466
Quote:
Originally Posted by charget View Post
“Higher proportion of Asian immigrants” - there are 25 million Asian Americans. That’s too significant to ignore by shifting the focus to proportions.
Portions matter 100%, using numbers you can start arguing that the USA is more Asian than Singapore or Laos.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > World
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top