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Old 08-07-2022, 08:58 PM
 
Location: Australia
3,602 posts, read 2,302,628 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkPS2 View Post
Diversity is just another word for replacing whites.
In actual fact here the European settlers nearly replaced the Indigenous population, who were decimated by new diseases in particular.
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Old 08-07-2022, 09:10 PM
 
1,764 posts, read 1,024,248 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarisaMay View Post
In actual fact here the European settlers nearly replaced the Indigenous population, who were decimated by new diseases in particular.
And wars. I am sure at school you did not learn on the conflicts of Aboriginals and white settlers with the Frontier wars. Enclosed is a link from the University of Newcastle on the Colonial Frontier Massacres, Australia, 1788 to 1930https://c21ch.newcastle.edu.au/colon...sacres/map.php It looks like there were many in large areas of Australia. I was not even taught on the conflict on Aborigines and white settlers either. It was assumed that the British settlers came in peace and Aborigines accepted the European settlements without fighting. Plus what was taught was Captain Cook was the man who discovered Australia. Yet there was little mention of Aborigines who lived in the land for thousands of years. I was in a school classroom with with at least 2 Aborigines in too then too. I wonder how they felt on being taught all that. OF course what was taught that so many Aborigines died from introduced diseases, but I know that is not the full story.

Last edited by herenow1; 08-07-2022 at 09:19 PM..
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Old 08-07-2022, 09:34 PM
 
Location: Brisbane
5,058 posts, read 7,492,438 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herenow1 View Post
And wars. I am sure at school you did not learn on the conflicts of Aboriginals and white settlers with the Frontier wars. Enclosed is a link from the University of Newcastle on the Colonial Frontier Massacres, Australia, 1788 to 1930https://c21ch.newcastle.edu.au/colon...sacres/map.php It looks like there were many in large areas of Australia. I was not even taught on the conflict on Aborigines and white settlers either. It was assumed that the British settlers came in peace and Aborigines accepted the European settlements without fighting. Plus what was taught was Captain Cook was the man who discovered Australia. Yet there was little mention of Aborigines who lived in the land for thousands of years. I was in a school classroom with with at least 2 Aborigines in too then too. I wonder how they felt on being taught all that. OF course what was taught that so many Aborigines died from introduced diseases, but I know that is not the full story.
I think that largely a product of how old you are and where you grew up.

The small towns in rural QLD (like the one I grew up in 1980's) had many aboriginal people in them, we were taught aboriginal history/language and dreamtimes stories etc along with European history. I always remember my favorite books as a kid include "Banana Bird and the Snake Man" and "The Giant Devil Dingo", and we used to hunt for aboriginal artifacts as Kids, ending up with a collection of axes and baskets.

The Battle or Myall Creek is something i have know about for just as long a cook, I was never told Cook "Discovered" Australia even from a European exploration view point Cook was a very late comer. The likes of Tasman, Dampier and Torres where just as much the of my education as cook.

However lets not beat about the bush here, Myall Creek resulted in the death of a reported 28 aboriginal people, which is a complete drop in the ocean compared to the effect small pox and Influenza had on the aboriginal population, and that is what was never mentioned during my primary education.

Last edited by danielsa1775; 08-07-2022 at 10:10 PM..
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Old 08-07-2022, 11:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielsa1775 View Post
I think that largely a product of how old you are and where you grew up.

The small towns in rural QLD (like the one I grew up in 1980's) had many aboriginal people in them, we were taught aboriginal history/language and dreamtimes stories etc along with European history. I always remember my favorite books as a kid include "Banana Bird and the Snake Man" and "The Giant Devil Dingo", and we used to hunt for aboriginal artifacts as Kids, ending up with a collection of axes and baskets.

The Battle or Myall Creek is something i have know about for just as long a cook, I was never told Cook "Discovered" Australia even from a European exploration view point Cook was a very late comer. The likes of Tasman, Dampier and Torres where just as much the of my education as cook.

However lets not beat about the bush here, Myall Creek resulted in the death of a reported 28 aboriginal people, which is a complete drop in the ocean compared to the effect small pox and Influenza had on the aboriginal population, and that is what was never mentioned during my primary education.
Funny you mentioned Myall Creek massacare. Here is a clip from a Newspaper in 1914; A 1914 letter to the editor of the Northern Star, a newspaper published on the NSW north coast, gives you some insight into what was going on: [12]

"Besides the Myall Creek massacre there were other and greater massacres perpetrated … for trivial offences, and sometimes for no substantial reason at all. The whites had a method of seeking retribution that was a disgrace to Christianity – that of punishing a tribe, probably an innocent one, for the crime of an individual. The whites, far from showing any regard for the lives of the original owners of the country, ignored all their rights as to property, and yet were most brutal when their own rights were transgressed."

Well there were other events besides Myall Creek: Such as Gippsland in the 1840s:
In July 1843 Angus McMillan and a group of his countrymen known as the Highland Brigade shot between 60 and 150 Gunaikurnai people in retribution for the murder of Ronald Macalister, the nephew of a wealthy pastoralist, Lachlan Macalister, who owned a local station called Nuntin.

In a letter to his family in England dated April 1846, the Gippsland squatter Henry Meyrick said:

The blacks are very quiet here now, poor wretches. No wild beast of the forest was ever hunted down with such unsparing perseverance as they are. Men, women and children are shot whenever they can be met with … I have protested against it at every station I have been in Gippsland, in the strongest language, but these things are kept very secret as the penalty would certainly be hanging.
https://www.theguardian.com/australi...warrigal-creek

Another: They carried their ticket to die
In 1924, according to oral history passed down by survivors, a group of Gija and Worla men were convicted of killing a bullock at Bedford Downs station (southern Kimberley region, WA).

They were sent back to the station with “tickets” around their necks as a label of their guilt. Some removed the tickets before they reached the station, others left them on.

When they arrived, those who still had their tickets on were sent to a remote area to chop wood. After spending the morning chopping wood, they were given food poisoned with strychnine, causing them to die painfully. Their bodies were then burned.

Two men who refused to eat escaped. They, along with two women who had also witnessed the killings, passed on this story.





Source: Massacres: The frontier violence that's hard to accept - Creative Spirits, retrieved from https://www.creativespirits.info/abo...hard-to-accept


It is hard for White Australians to accept that the above happened in the past. I am sure there are people in Australia that are in denial of it ever happening in Australia. After all Australia under British settlement was founded on democracy and Christian values.
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Old 08-08-2022, 01:30 AM
 
Location: Brisbane
5,058 posts, read 7,492,438 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herenow1 View Post
Funny you mentioned Myall Creek massacare. Here is a clip from a Newspaper in 1914; A 1914 letter to the editor of the Northern Star, a newspaper published on the NSW north coast, gives you some insight into what was going on: [12]

"Besides the Myall Creek massacre there were other and greater massacres perpetrated … for trivial offences, and sometimes for no substantial reason at all. The whites had a method of seeking retribution that was a disgrace to Christianity – that of punishing a tribe, probably an innocent one, for the crime of an individual. The whites, far from showing any regard for the lives of the original owners of the country, ignored all their rights as to property, and yet were most brutal when their own rights were transgressed."

Well there were other events besides Myall Creek: Such as Gippsland in the 1840s:
In July 1843 Angus McMillan and a group of his countrymen known as the Highland Brigade shot between 60 and 150 Gunaikurnai people in retribution for the murder of Ronald Macalister, the nephew of a wealthy pastoralist, Lachlan Macalister, who owned a local station called Nuntin.

In a letter to his family in England dated April 1846, the Gippsland squatter Henry Meyrick said:

The blacks are very quiet here now, poor wretches. No wild beast of the forest was ever hunted down with such unsparing perseverance as they are. Men, women and children are shot whenever they can be met with … I have protested against it at every station I have been in Gippsland, in the strongest language, but these things are kept very secret as the penalty would certainly be hanging.
https://www.theguardian.com/australi...warrigal-creek

Another: They carried their ticket to die
In 1924, according to oral history passed down by survivors, a group of Gija and Worla men were convicted of killing a bullock at Bedford Downs station (southern Kimberley region, WA).

They were sent back to the station with “tickets” around their necks as a label of their guilt. Some removed the tickets before they reached the station, others left them on.

When they arrived, those who still had their tickets on were sent to a remote area to chop wood. After spending the morning chopping wood, they were given food poisoned with strychnine, causing them to die painfully. Their bodies were then burned.

Two men who refused to eat escaped. They, along with two women who had also witnessed the killings, passed on this story.





Source: Massacres: The frontier violence that's hard to accept - Creative Spirits, retrieved from https://www.creativespirits.info/abo...hard-to-accept


It is hard for White Australians to accept that the above happened in the past. I am sure there are people in Australia that are in denial of it ever happening in Australia. After all Australia under British settlement was founded on democracy and Christian values.
Its hard for cultures all over the world to accept the ills of the past.

No doubt their some white Australians that are in total denial.

On the other side there are also white Australians who think the European Colonialists were nothing more than total savages as well.

You only need to look at the defacing and knocking down of cook statues in Australia as an example of that, we have no statues of Cook in Brisbane, so its usually the ones to the the kings and Queens who cop it instead.

Then their are also Australians who have ever even heard of James cook (Like my wife who is a Korean Immigrant for Instance).

History is always open to interpretation, It literally is his - story. though I would think my kids (8 and 3), will get a far more anti - European view of Australian history than I did.
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Old 08-08-2022, 02:28 AM
 
Location: Australia
3,602 posts, read 2,302,628 times
Reputation: 6932
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielsa1775 View Post
I think that largely a product of how old you are and where you grew up.

The small towns in rural QLD (like the one I grew up in 1980's) had many aboriginal people in them, we were taught aboriginal history/language and dreamtimes stories etc along with European history. I always remember my favorite books as a kid include "Banana Bird and the Snake Man" and "The Giant Devil Dingo", and we used to hunt for aboriginal artifacts as Kids, ending up with a collection of axes and baskets.

The Battle or Myall Creek is something i have know about for just as long a cook, I was never told Cook "Discovered" Australia even from a European exploration view point Cook was a very late comer. The likes of Tasman, Dampier and Torres where just as much the of my education as cook.

However lets not beat about the bush here, Myall Creek resulted in the death of a reported 28 aboriginal people, which is a complete drop in the ocean compared to the effect small pox and Influenza had on the aboriginal population, and that is what was never mentioned during my primary education.
Yes, I am obviously older and I would not care to even write about what we were taught about the Aboriginal people.
When I was teaching I was the Aboriginal and multi-cultural contact person for our school ( chosen as my husband was Italian and the other person had a Greek wife, which we found very amusing) Some of the activities at the time centred around Dreamtime stories ended up being quite controversial as they could be thought of as what is now called cultural appropriation.
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Old 08-08-2022, 07:01 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
27,519 posts, read 28,613,393 times
Reputation: 25097
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardwoodisanissue View Post
You made the claim that rural areas and small towns in Canada were less white and more diverse than in the US, which is demonstrably, absolutely, undeniably false.
I never made such a claim. You must be confusing me with another poster.

What I said was there is a large swath of small town and rural America, especially in the northern half of the country, that is very white. I did not compare it to Canada.
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Old 08-08-2022, 07:05 AM
 
1,764 posts, read 1,024,248 times
Reputation: 1942
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarisaMay View Post
Yes, I am obviously older and I would not care to even write about what we were taught about the Aboriginal people.
When I was teaching I was the Aboriginal and multi-cultural contact person for our school ( chosen as my husband was Italian and the other person had a Greek wife, which we found very amusing) Some of the activities at the time centred around Dreamtime stories ended up being quite controversial as they could be thought of as what is now called cultural appropriation.
Even people half a world away are aware of the massacres of Aborigines in Australia by the early white settlers. An example a a Norway high school presentation of the genocide of the Aborigines:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVCVhH0CEac

I did not know really about Aboriginal massacres at elementary school, but it was briefly touched in high school. I did Aboriginal studies at university and learned a lot more about it than what I was taught in school. Plus how devastating the White authorities paternalism policies on Aborigines had a devastated impact on traditional aboriginal culture.
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Old 08-08-2022, 11:56 AM
 
2,336 posts, read 1,044,628 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hardwoodisanissue View Post
...this is just mindless nonsense.

Rural and suburban Canada is certifiably less diverse than rural and suburban America. It's not up for deliberation, it's the data. It's basic history.

Canada is much more white than the US is, and it has no rurally-based, historic racial groups like African Americans or Hispanic Americans. It just has whites and natives. A supermajority of it's racial minorities live in Canada's 5 largest urban areas.

Let me emphasize my shock: you seriously think towns/cities outside major urban areas in Canada are diverse, and not in America?

What "cities outside major urban areas" does Canada have?

Again, not even close. Canadian cities and towns are head-for-head less diverse than their American equivalents, and are certainly much whiter. Ditto Canadian vs American rural areas.
Not sure...you could be right...but like another poster mentioned there large areas of the USA that all mostly "white"....and many generations removed from being immigrants. Baseball, hotdogs and apple pie....

The big differences between USA when compared to Canada and Australia,
...the two elephants in the room, ...are black and hispanic populations/percentages...
other than that ...Canada and Australia hold their own in terms of diversity.

Black population
Canada 1.2 million ....3.5%
USA 42 million .....12.5%
Australia 400 thousand ....1.6%

Hispanic population
Canada 500 thousand ....1.3%
USA 62 million .....18.7%
Australia 125 thousand ...0.43%

Indigenous population
Canada 1.6 million .....4.9%
USA 6 million .....1.8%
Australia 800 thousand ....3.3%

South Asian population
Canada 1.4 million ....3.7%
USA 5.4 million ....1.6%
Australia 900 thousand ...3.5%

Chinese population
Canada 1.8 million ....3.8%
USA 5.4 million ....1.6%
Australia 1.4 million ...5.5%

Filipino population
Canada 860 thousand ....2.5%
USA 4.2 million ....1.2%
Australia 408 thousand ....1.6%

Muslim population
Canada 2.8 million ...7.3%
USA 3.4 million ....1%
Australia 815 thousand ....3.2%

Asian population
Canada 6.1 million ....18%
USA 20 million ....5.9%
Australia 4.9 million ....17.5%

Polish ancestry
Canada 1.1 million ...2.9%
USA 9 million ....2.7%
Australia 180 thousand ...0.7%

German ancestry
Canada 3.3 million ....8.7%
USA 49 million ....14.4%
Australia 1 million ....4%

French ancestry
Canada 8 million ....21%
USA 10.4 million ....3%
Australia 100 thousand ...0.47%

Italian ancestry
Canada 1.6 million ....4.2%
USA 17.8 million ....5.2%
Australia 1.1 million ....4.4%

Ukrainian ancestry
Canada 1.4 million ....4%
USA 1 million ....0.3%
Australia 40 thousand ....0.15%
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Old 08-08-2022, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Australia
3,602 posts, read 2,302,628 times
Reputation: 6932
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTB365 View Post
Not sure...you could be right...but like another poster mentioned there large areas of the USA that all mostly "white"....and many generations removed from being immigrants. Baseball, hotdogs and apple pie....

The big differences between USA when compared to Canada and Australia,
...the two elephants in the room, ...are black and hispanic populations/percentages...
other than that ...Canada and Australia hold their own in terms of diversity.

Black population
Canada 1.2 million ....3.5%
USA 42 million .....12.5%
Australia 400 thousand ....1.6%

Hispanic population
Canada 500 thousand ....1.3%
USA 62 million .....18.7%
Australia 125 thousand ...0.43%

Indigenous population
Canada 1.6 million .....4.9%
USA 6 million .....1.8%
Australia 800 thousand ....3.3%

South Asian population
Canada 1.4 million ....3.7%
USA 5.4 million ....1.6%
Australia 900 thousand ...3.5%

Chinese population
Canada 1.8 million ....3.8%
USA 5.4 million ....1.6%
Australia 1.4 million ...5.5%

Filipino population
Canada 860 thousand ....2.5%
USA 4.2 million ....1.2%
Australia 408 thousand ....1.6%

Muslim population
Canada 2.8 million ...7.3%
USA 3.4 million ....1%
Australia 815 thousand ....3.2%

Asian population
Canada 6.1 million ....18%
USA 20 million ....5.9%
Australia 4.9 million ....17.5%

Polish ancestry
Canada 1.1 million ...2.9%
USA 9 million ....2.7%
Australia 180 thousand ...0.7%

German ancestry
Canada 3.3 million ....8.7%
USA 49 million ....14.4%
Australia 1 million ....4%

French ancestry
Canada 8 million ....21%
USA 10.4 million ....3%
Australia 100 thousand ...0.47%

Italian ancestry
Canada 1.6 million ....4.2%
USA 17.8 million ....5.2%
Australia 1.1 million ....4.4%

Ukrainian ancestry
Canada 1.4 million ....4%
USA 1 million ....0.3%
Australia 40 thousand ....0.15%
Where did you find the figures on black population for Australia? Is it an estimate from somewhere? The government does not collect figures on race other than for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders. Hispanic is not a term even much used here so I am wondering what it includes.
The ancestory figures are obviously obtained from the census, where we can nominate more than one. Not necessarily accurate as many of the children of immigrants, like my kids, simply nominate Australian. Whereas someone like me, with a single grandparent who left Scotland at the age of two, is free to nominate Scottish.
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