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View Poll Results: EU or USA
European Union 119 45.25%
USA 144 54.75%
Voters: 263. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-06-2013, 08:36 AM
 
10 posts, read 13,912 times
Reputation: 35

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Quote:
Vladimir...did you know that you or your employer have to pay for your own healthcare in the US?
If they want to pay for healthcare, they have right to choice, that's the point. In Serbia for instance, you need to go to private doctor if you want to get decent medical help. Basically, you been paying a double for pretty the same thing in that part of Europe. Same goes in Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro, Macedonia...

But if we talk about medicine, Europe is behind US. I'm not talking about insurance, but medical treatments and medicine overall.

America solely developed or contributed significantly to 9 of the top 10 most important medical innovations since 1975 as ranked by a 2001 poll of physicians, while the EU and Switzerland together contributed to five. Since 1966, Americans have received more Nobel Prizes in Medicine than the rest of the world combined. From 1989 to 2002, four times more money was invested in private biotechnology companies in America than in Europe.

A comprehensive 2007 study by European doctors found the five-year cancer survival rate was significantly higher in the U.S. than in all 21 European nations studied, 66.3% for men versus the European mean of 47.3% and 62.9% versus 52.8% for women.

Americans undergo cancer screenings at significantly higher rates than people in other developed countries, and access MRI and CT scans at the highest rate of any OECD nation. People in the U.S. diagnosed with high cholesterol or hypertension access pharmaceutical treatments at higher rates than those diagnosed in other developed nations.

Bending the Productivity Curve: Why America Leads the World in Medical Innovation | Cato Institute

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/05/bu...ene.html?_r=1&

We had a girl in Serbia for example that needed a heart-operation and surgery could be done only in US (Houston). State involved itself and we payed as a country as much as $710 000 just to provide this little girl go abroad. Previosly, she went at Paris and München hospitals, however, we don't have good enough developed medical treatment knowledge in general in Europe and they send her to US.

http://www.kurir-info.rs/tijana-ide-...-clanak-723185

(you can use Google translate from Serbian to your language)

If you get sick from a serious illness, you'd have to go across the pond anyway.

Quote:
but not with the US. There are a few good you need to buy in the US that aren't in the bag of other nations, like healthcare, education, etc.
Exactly, PPP doesn't tell you for what purposes you may use your money, so it's irelevant for what you been using it. Disposable hosuehold income measures how much money you own after tax obligations and what amount of money you have to do with it whatever you want to do. You can pay medical insuriance and you don't have to. You can pay a wh*ore and you don't have to. It's your choice. But when you want purchase goods (including who*res ), in US you'd have highest purchasing power parity for the same amount of money.

Then, you have gas and eletricity price... it's a lot cheaper in Americas than in Europe and that's the reason why even our companies are moving abroad.

Brussels fears European 'industrial massacre' sparked by energy costs - Telegraph

European industry flocks to U.S. to take advantage of cheaper gas - Washington Post

You'd pay more for healthcare in US, but way more for everything else in Europe. Taxes on just about everything (aside from state tax-obligations) are a lot lower in US than in Europe, so measurements pretty anticipated every part of household spending.

There's a reason why U.S. dollar is dominant reserve currency of the world (counting for 62.2%) and why 87% of all global trade is settled in their currency.

The world is lefting Europe behind pretty fast: Europe's dream of toppling dollar fades as Asian Tigers dump euro - Telegraph

If we want to solve the problems, first step is to recognize there's one.

Peace.

Last edited by Vladimir_; 11-06-2013 at 08:51 AM.. Reason: Problem with posting links, help from mods?
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Old 11-06-2013, 11:08 AM
 
2,181 posts, read 2,373,317 times
Reputation: 2021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladimir_ View Post
Why people with ZERO knowledge insisting to talk about something they don't know?
You provide no source for your statistics except refer to some article from Washingtonpost which is generally US biased. For all I know you made them up. Here are some statistics from the World bank, CIA en IMF that prove you wrong: List of countries by GDP (PPP) per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

EU economy is 1.1 trillion(!) dollar(that is 110.000.000.000$) larger than the US according to the world bank. List of countries by GDP (PPP) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia . Even the US biased institutions like CIA and IMF admit the EU economy is larger.

More important, wealth is more equally distributed in the EU, while the US is nearly at the bottom of the list. Meaning a few rich people nearly own everything and the rest of them are poor. List of countries by income equality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just amazing that you have not managed to write a single true thing so far.
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Old 11-06-2013, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Chicago
248 posts, read 338,885 times
Reputation: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladimir_ View Post
If they want to pay for healthcare, they have right to choice, that's the point. In Serbia for instance, you need to go to private doctor if you want to get decent medical help. Basically, you been paying a double for pretty the same thing in that part of Europe. Same goes in Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro, Macedonia...

But if we talk about medicine, Europe is behind US. I'm not talking about insurance, but medical treatments and medicine overall.

America solely developed or contributed significantly to 9 of the top 10 most important medical innovations since 1975 as ranked by a 2001 poll of physicians, while the EU and Switzerland together contributed to five. Since 1966, Americans have received more Nobel Prizes in Medicine than the rest of the world combined. From 1989 to 2002, four times more money was invested in private biotechnology companies in America than in Europe.

A comprehensive 2007 study by European doctors found the five-year cancer survival rate was significantly higher in the U.S. than in all 21 European nations studied, 66.3% for men versus the European mean of 47.3% and 62.9% versus 52.8% for women.

Americans undergo cancer screenings at significantly higher rates than people in other developed countries, and access MRI and CT scans at the highest rate of any OECD nation. People in the U.S. diagnosed with high cholesterol or hypertension access pharmaceutical treatments at higher rates than those diagnosed in other developed nations.

Bending the Productivity Curve: Why America Leads the World in Medical Innovation | Cato Institute

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/05/bu...ene.html?_r=1&

We had a girl in Serbia for example that needed a heart-operation and surgery could be done only in US (Houston). State involved itself and we payed as a country as much as $710 000 just to provide this little girl go abroad. Previosly, she went at Paris and München hospitals, however, we don't have good enough developed medical treatment knowledge in general in Europe and they send her to US.

TIJANA IDE NA OPERACIJU: Jedva

(you can use Google translate from Serbian to your language)

If you get sick from a serious illness, you'd have to go across the pond anyway.

Exactly, PPP doesn't tell you for what purposes you may use your money, so it's irelevant for what you been using it. Disposable hosuehold income measures how much money you own after tax obligations and what amount of money you have to do with it whatever you want to do. You can pay medical insuriance and you don't have to. You can pay a wh*ore and you don't have to. It's your choice. But when you want purchase goods (including who*res ), in US you'd have highest purchasing power parity for the same amount of money.

Then, you have gas and eletricity price... it's a lot cheaper in Americas than in Europe and that's the reason why even our companies are moving abroad.

Brussels fears European 'industrial massacre' sparked by energy costs - Telegraph

European industry flocks to U.S. to take advantage of cheaper gas - Washington Post

You'd pay more for healthcare in US, but way more for everything else in Europe. Taxes on just about everything (aside from state tax-obligations) are a lot lower in US than in Europe, so measurements pretty anticipated every part of household spending.

There's a reason why U.S. dollar is dominant reserve currency of the world (counting for 62.2%) and why 87% of all global trade is settled in their currency.

The world is lefting Europe behind pretty fast: Europe's dream of toppling dollar fades as Asian Tigers dump euro - Telegraph

If we want to solve the problems, first step is to recognize there's one.

Peace.
America doesn't even have to raise taxes for free healthcare all they have to do is take some money out of the budget and put it towards healthcare, we spend way to much on military. Our system is terrible, its expensive but the country does have some of the best medical equipment in the world.
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Old 11-06-2013, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Satellite Of Love
296 posts, read 428,127 times
Reputation: 314
Say what you like about 'Murika, increasing lawlessness, unworkable new healthcare law, social fabric falling apart, but it's still home to me and I wouldn't live anywhere else.
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Old 11-06-2013, 05:37 PM
 
1,736 posts, read 1,711,528 times
Reputation: 1135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladimir_ View Post
If they want to pay for healthcare, they have right to choice, that's the point. In Serbia for instance, you need to go to private doctor if you want to get decent medical help. Basically, you been paying a double for pretty the same thing in that part of Europe. Same goes in Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro, Macedonia...
No, thats not the point. Everyone needs healthcare sooner or later. The point is that healthcare in America is more expensive than anyhere, and delivers lower quality than most developed nations. And that means that since its not in the PPP basket of goods, its is a huge drag on disposable income.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladimir_ View Post
But if we talk about medicine, Europe is behind US. I'm not talking about insurance, but medical treatments and medicine overall.
Um, no.

Not just no, but hell, no.

When the efficiency of healthcare systems are compared in Public Health, large, over-arching measures are used. Measures that involve as many factors as possible. This is to even out the confounding factors introduced by some countries having particular competencies or challenges. More people die from malaria in Nigeria than in Iceland, but that says nothing about how their healthcare systems perform. Cuba is pretty good on preventive medicine, Norway on resucitating people whos been under ice, America does well on many cancers. And systems have their areas where they do badly as well.

Americans have shorter lifespans than most western European nations.

People spend more years out of that lifespan in good health in Western Europe. This is a measurement called HLY.

People lose fewer years to ill health in Western Europe. This is a measurement called DALYs.

Fewer people die as a result of inappropriate, late or complete lack of healthcare in Western Europe. This is a measurement called Amendable Mortality.

The measurements above are highly appropriate for measuring the performance of a healthcare system across all levels of a population.

Additionally, Western Europe has a lower rate of infant mortality. More children born there survive birth. A lower rate of maternal mortality, more mothers survive giving birth. And a lower rate of under-5 mortality.

This is worth keeping in mind when remembering that for every dollar spent on healthcare in the US, the UK, for example, spends 40 cents. Per person. And gives healthcare to all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladimir_ View Post
America solely developed or contributed significantly to 9 of the top 10 most important medical innovations since 1975 as ranked by a 2001 poll of physicians, while the EU and Switzerland together contributed to five. Since 1966, Americans have received more Nobel Prizes in Medicine than the rest of the world combined. From 1989 to 2002, four times more money was invested in private biotechnology companies in America than in Europe.
Historically, America has gone through a period of dominating research. This is due to being the one large nation standing after WW2, with labs, massive research funding, infrastructure etc. And the resulting brain drain. Most Nobels are given for work done at least 20-30 years ago. Since they can't be awarded posthumously, its a running joke that Nobels are longevity prizes.

Today, while the US still spends more per person, the EU spends more money in total, and publishes more papers. Though the US has more cites in...english language journals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladimir_ View Post
A comprehensive 2007 study by European doctors found the five-year cancer survival rate was significantly higher in the U.S. than in all 21 European nations studied, 66.3% for men versus the European mean of 47.3% and 62.9% versus 52.8% for women.

Americans undergo cancer screenings at significantly higher rates than people in other developed countries, and access MRI and CT scans at the highest rate of any OECD nation. People in the U.S. diagnosed with high cholesterol or hypertension access pharmaceutical treatments at higher rates than those diagnosed in other developed nations.

And...you don't actually see the link there?

America does genuinly have an area of good performance in cancers. However, that is often not for Americans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladimir_ View Post
Quotes the CATO institute
Vladimir, you've previously claimed to be a professional. Now you are quoting the CATO institude. These two are not compatible. Please don't pretend to more knowledge than you have.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladimir_ View Post
We had a girl in Serbia for example that needed a heart-operation and surgery could be done only in US (Houston). State involved itself and we payed as a country as much as $710 000 just to provide this little girl go abroad.
Yes. Exactly. The best in America is for everyone who can pay, not just Americans. Often large UHC systems who dont see the point in keeping specialists for rare conditions.¨And push Americans out due to greater market power.

The worst is for Americans only, the middle and lower classes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladimir_ View Post
If you get sick from a serious illness, you'd have to go across the pond anyway.
Bull. Valdimir, 80 000 people come to the US for medical treatment each year. Specialist procedures that is not economical to provide in smaller countries, vanity medicine, etc. Over 1 million leave for medical treatment each year. Why do you think so many more people leave that enter for a product?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladimir_ View Post
Exactly, PPP doesn't tell you for what purposes you may use your money, so it's irelevant for what you been using it. Disposable hosuehold income measures how much money you own after tax obligations and what amount of money you have to do with it whatever you want to do. You can pay medical insuriance and you don't have to. You can pay a wh*ore and you don't have to. It's your choice. But when you want purchase goods (including who*res ), in US you'd have highest purchasing power parity for the same amount of money.
But you have less disposable income for your...purchases in the US, because you do need medical coverage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladimir_ View Post
You'd pay more for healthcare in US, but way more for everything else in Europe. Taxes on just about everything (aside from state tax-obligations) are a lot lower in US than in Europe, so measurements pretty anticipated every part of household spending.
As long as said taxes go to purchase life essentials cheaper than individual purchases would have been, you are actually better off with them.

Anyway, why do you think taxes are a Europe wide constant?

If you earn 100 000 $ per year, where do you think you'll pey more taxes, Norway or New York state? How do you think Swiss taxes compare to US ones? Which country taxes businesses less Irealnd or the US?

Vladimir, I'm going to be frank: You claim to be a professional and a resident in Europe. Yet you quote the CATO institute and your knowedge on issues such as healthcare are, to put it in the kindest possible terms, grossly ignorant beyond belief.

You are coming off like an American ultraconservative that has never been outside the US, possibly not his hometown and gets his information from a very limited section of conservative entertainment sources.
And your statement about not having to purchase healthcare show quite clearly that you are very young. Please let the adults debate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by INsync3 View Post
America doesn't even have to raise taxes for free healthcare all they have to do is take some money out of the budget and put it towards healthcare, we spend way to much on military. Our system is terrible, its expensive but the country does have some of the best medical equipment in the world.
While I agree with your general point, just the waste in US healthcare is twice as much money as the entrie military budget. Yes, really.

The interesting thing is that today, the US govenment spends 4200 $ per person per year on government healthcare. Medicare, medicaid, VHA, etc. Covers 28 % of the population. This is more than all but two nations spend per person on providing UHCs for all citizens.
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Old 11-07-2013, 06:30 AM
 
Location: Westminster, London
878 posts, read 1,270,364 times
Reputation: 726
What a beauty, courtesy of Mario Draghi.



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Old 11-07-2013, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Hong Kong / Vienna
4,557 posts, read 5,705,760 times
Reputation: 3966
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissionIMPOSSIBRU View Post
What a beauty, courtesy of Mario Draghi.
It's not the first time and it certainly won't be the last time you'll see an intraday graph like that



The Dollar is doomed
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Old 11-08-2013, 08:51 AM
 
Location: In the heights
30,828 posts, read 29,723,558 times
Reputation: 16503
Guys, move to America! The downtowns of smaller cities (which can still be pretty sizable in comparison) in the US are way cheap and they will be revitalized! You know how a downtown and a pair of legs are supposed to work, so show the fatties how it's done! Join in and help build! !EMIGRATE!
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Old 11-08-2013, 01:36 PM
 
Location: M I N N E S O T A
14,870 posts, read 19,519,416 times
Reputation: 9207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim Reader View Post

Vladimir, I'm going to be frank: You claim to be a professional and a resident in Europe. Yet you quote the CATO institute and your knowedge on issues such as healthcare are, to put it in the kindest possible terms, grossly ignorant beyond belief.

You are coming off like an American ultraconservative that has never been outside the US, possibly not his hometown and gets his information from a very limited section of conservative entertainment sources.
And your statement about not having to purchase healthcare show quite clearly that you are very young. Please let the adults debate.
Awe good arguments until you try to make it personal.
And ironically you say "Please let the adults debate" lmfao.
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Old 11-08-2013, 01:39 PM
 
76 posts, read 80,966 times
Reputation: 104
European Union, much better choice.
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