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View Poll Results: EU or USA
European Union 119 45.25%
USA 144 54.75%
Voters: 263. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-08-2013, 03:29 PM
6,324 posts, read 5,955,208 times
Reputation: 19270


Not many "wide open spaces" in Western Europe.

Plenty in the U.S. and Eastern Europe - and other places.

That's why I made my pick. Ultimately, politics is irrelevant.

I work with tourists in the U.S. - and Western European tourists are whiney whining whiners. Give me a Russian or an Argentinian any day of the week over an Italian or a German.
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Old 11-08-2013, 04:23 PM
Location: Chicago
248 posts, read 330,440 times
Reputation: 104
Originally Posted by JamieJack12 View Post
European Union, much better choice.
Why the only thing I see better about the EU is the healthcare.
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Old 11-08-2013, 06:16 PM
10 posts, read 13,548 times
Reputation: 35
Everyone needs healthcare sooner or later

But you have less disposable income for your...purchases in the US, because you do need medical coverage.
No, you don't have.

It's is part of disposable hosuehold income.

In US, you been BUYING health insuriance. Hence, you been purchasing some goods and it's calculated within disposable hosuehold income.

So, you're wrong.

With our prices and taxes in Europe, we have even less than official data shows compared to US.

When the efficiency of healthcare systems are compared in Public Health, large, over-arching measures are used. Measures that involve as many factors as possible. This is to even out the confounding factors introduced by some countries having particular competencies or challenges. More people die from malaria in Nigeria than in Iceland, but that says nothing about how their healthcare systems perform. Cuba is pretty good on preventive medicine, Norway on resucitating people whos been under ice, America does well on many cancers. And systems have their areas where they do badly as well.
You've forgotten like in everything else?

Friend, I gave it to you a fresh example for heart surgery - it's not a cancer. They just have best medicine in the world. They perform the best way hospital can make.

1. John Hopkins Hospital – Baltimore, USA.

2. Sharp Memorial Hospital – San Diego, USA.

3. Henry Ford West Bloomfield Hospital – USA.

4. Florida Hospital Waterman – Tevares, FL, USA.

5. The City Hospital – Dubai, UAE.

6. Prince of Wales Private Hospital – Sydney, Australia.

7. Bumrugrad International Hospital – Bangkok, Thailand.

8. Massachusetts General Hospital – (MGH), USA.

9. Fotris Hospital – Banglore, India.

10. Anadolu Medical Center – Istanbul, Turkey.

The World’s 10 Best Hospitals in 2013 | The best world Hospitals


(Istanbul is 50% in Asia, 50% in Europe)

delivers lower quality than most developed nations.
US has the best developed medicine in the world, how you can say that? Respect knowledge, please! It's 21th century.

Finally, we need to pay even more than Americans if we want to get world's best medicine, which is de jure in America? We actually need to go to US to get best treatments and even you've said, it's not free for everyone, isn't?

Interestaning. You see, Americans at least don't need to buy tickets to fly over Antlantic to get best treatment fort themselves. What is most important, they have no need to make step to any other country. That's a big adventage. For them is way more cheaper than for you to get themselves world's best medical treatment.

Your logic is irrational. With your thinking - why should we have high skyscrapers - America or China are both having, therefore, we don't need higher skyscapers at all - at the end, they been made for everyone, not just for Americans or Chinese.

Not just no, but hell, no.

Americans have shorter lifespans than most western European nations.

People spend more years out of that lifespan in good health in Western Europe. This is a measurement called HLY.

People lose fewer years to ill health in Western Europe. This is a measurement called DALYs.

Additionally, Western Europe has a lower rate of infant mortality.
Western Europe... Is the West Europe only part of Europe or is Western Europe only part of continent in EU? Let's measure that way in America - some part of US we'll measure, while some others we'll not.

Therefore, you're not talking about Europe, but just few countries in it.

Anyway, Europe is dying demographically.

Americans have more births than deaths per 1 000. Europe on another hand has more deaths than births. Americans have best balanced fertility rate in the world being at 2.06 (Africa has highest rate, way more from balanced, same as Asia and Middle East), while Europeans have the worst one in the world.

The fair minimum for sustain the nation(s) is 2.0.

It's incomparably.

..GDP per capita...
Okay, this is disturbing. It's like 100 times I'm posting the same thing all over again.

Please, read!

PPP per capita (contribution to GDP) it's not the same as disposable household income through PPP, meaning how much average earns and how much can spend or buy on goods.
You been acting like creationist. You been ignoring the posts you don't like, being affraid it could broke your wrong view. LAST TIME - You been puting HOW MUCH AVERAGE PERSON CONTRIBUTES TO WHOLE GDP. Nothing else. If you ask me, I prefier as less as average can contribute. I'd like to see companies contributing more to GDP throught taxes more than average people.

When it comes to average disposable wage (which you unsuccessfully been trying to show), it's completely another thing.

Developed country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As you can see, Americans are at first place. No pardon.

Why not London vs NYC? It's like you been comparing Belgrade vs Frankfurt or Serbia vs Germany.

US has lower taxes than Europe. It shows personal tax rates on $100,000 and $300,000 around the world. The U.S. comes in at 55th out of 114:

How Low Are U.S. Taxes Compared to Other Countries? - Derek Thompson - The Atlantic

Among OECD countries only Mexico, Chile and Turkey have lower taxes than the United States.

Simple as that. That means our disposable household income is falling down further with this one. If we count gas and electricity prices, we falling even more behind Americans. That's why they have more money then Europeans.

You are coming off like an American ultraconservative
When people lose their arguments, they been always doing the same thing - attach argumentum ad hominem. Please, stay on level of discussion. I'm not attacking you on personal, so please be respectful if you want respect. Attack arguments, not me at personal. Economy is science, therefore, in this matter, we don't argue versus person, but versus persons arguments. If you don't now to communicate as educated person or having problem with lacking arguments, then I'm affraid we'll need to stop here.

My IP:

IP Address:

SBB - Serbian broadband, Srpske kablovske mreže SBB

Moderators can prove it if they want, they see my IP.

Do you want my home adress? I can give you both - in Serbia and Germany if you want so. Do you want my number of phone to see my state number? Call if you want to prove. I'm not hidding myself. You have my real name, my IP, I'm totally relaxed when it comes to my identity.

However, it's quite interesting on what basis you concluded that, cause my English sucks.

I understand. Ideological biases. Typical for lack of argumentation.

Vladimir, you've previously claimed to be a professional. Now you are quoting the CATO institude. These two are not compatible. Please don't pretend to more knowledge than you have.
Another one argumentum ad hominem.

Arguments on arguments.

Ignoring out of fear will not change the facts.

EU economy is 1.1 trillion(!) dollar(that is$) larger than the US
So, you don't have name of country with bigger economy than US? I even posted with bigger font size to you so you can see it, but well, something must have went wrong:

Show me one COUNTRY having more money than they have? Can you show me the name of country having more than $16.662,700 (2013.)?
Anyway, EU is formed of many different countries, it's not country by itself. However, we can play this game if you want so. Similar one exist in America's formed by Canada, US and Mexico and guess what - they have bigger econonomy than EU - NAFTA = $17.271 billion.

So in any way, America is wealthier than Europe. If you want to measure country versus country - any European country vs. US - US has more money. If you want to measure whole EU, than again american NAFTA is wealthier than EU. According to IMF, even US alone is bigger than EU through GDP PPP. So - America's have and produce more money in any single way. That's the reason why she's been growing, while Europe is headed to deflation:

Economy in U.S. Expands at a 2.8% Rate on Inventories - Bloomberg

EU spends more money in total
Then again, NAFTA (Canada, US and Mexico) more than EU.

Try again.

The best in America is for everyone who can pay, not just Americans.
Fair. At least you've admitted.

Why Europe doesn't have something like that? Why we need to go abroad? If we have better medicine, why should we have to go to US?

This is not topic about who can have sex with bigger di*ck, but who has bigger di*ck in his paints. Girls can have sex with me, but my buddy downthere it's only mine. They need to come for him. That's a big adventage and biiiig difference. In this topic - American's have tentatively bigger when it comes to medicine and economics, even universities 2013 World University Rankings | Academic Ranking of World Universities or brands Interbrand - Best Global Brands 2013 - (Brand View) (Europe is just out of top 10)

So, you admit - US has better medicine than we do?

Meaning a few rich people nearly own everything and the rest of them are poor.
Your statement is false.

European data shows that even poor American is wealthier than average European:


Comparing to the rest of the world:

Astonishing Numbers: America's Poor Still Live Better Than Most Of The Rest Of Humanity - Forbes

You provide no source for your statistics except refer to some article from Washingtonpost which is generally US biased. For all I know you made them up.
Is this way you know everything else?

I'll show you:

List of largest consumer markets - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of countries by average wage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of countries by per capita personal income - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Here's even more

Household income - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Household income - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Household income - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For all I know, you just made a false accusation, due to hysteria over rejecting the facts.

You been embarrassing yourself.

Grow up, they have more $$$.

Now what, what's next excuse, please? Easter bunny?

We need to improve ourselves to stay competetive, otherwise if we ignoring the facts, we'll be at the same garbage as my native country is right now.

The Dollar is doomed
Well, euro is only currency lossing its reserve currency status. World doesn't want to hold euros anymore and that's a big problem for us. Dollar is growing both as reserve curerency and paramount currency for international payments.

What a beauty, courtesy of Mario Draghi.
Actually, eurozone is probably going to deflation as Japan did back in 90s.

More of Euro Zone Will See Deflation: Tepper: Video - Bloomberg

We need to stimulate economy, not to cut spending. But that would mean German tax payers should (they would have to) pay higher taxes for Greece, Italy, Portugal...and when I say more, I mean hell a looot more. That's the reason why Europe is cuting spending, it's the only alternative to stimulation. Situation in Europe is like when you're having cancer and you been cutting medical drogs at the same time.

And even with slashed spending, our debt is growing like we been spending and uneployment rate is still growing. Japan had the same thing for 2 decades, often known in economy as ''lost decades''.

Last edited by Vladimir_; 11-08-2013 at 07:44 PM..
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Old 11-08-2013, 11:47 PM
Location: Leeds, UK
22,256 posts, read 25,748,959 times
Reputation: 8753
The US has more specialist centres for certain diseases, especially obscure ones, but it isn't always the US that people go to to get certain treatments that they can't get in their own country - I've watched documentaries of people in the UK going to France and Austria to receive treatment that does not exist here for very unusual or rare diseases. This doesn't really mean the UK has inferior healthcare to either country, as people from the Middle East come here for treatment too.

The US has pretty fantastic healthcare for people who can afford health insurance, but it's still a massive expenditure. I've checked forums of Americans living in the UK (married Brits), who would argue that the quality of care of Blue Crosse Health Insurance in the US is probably better than the NHS, since the NHS is (or was) pretty much entirely publicly funded and is often under immense pressure, but they're still happy that they don't have to pay for surgeries, or pay nothing or very little for medicine from the pharmacy, and if you are unhappy with the quality of service with the NHS, then you can switch to private health insurance, such as Bupa - those options are available and you're not stuck with nationalised health care if you're unhappy with what you're getting.

Plus, there is only so much healthcare and medicine can do - Americans are still dying earlier on average than many European countries, even when talking about the EU as a whole - good diet and exercise are important too.

Americans have higher household income and higher wages in general, but that does not equate to a better standard of living as I'm sure you're well aware. There are so many factors to take into consideration that stretch well beyond just income, and the most important factor should be how the people in each country are doing - are they happy?

Then again, NAFTA (Canada, US and Mexico) more than EU.

Try again.
Shouldn't you be comparing NAFTA to the EU, rather than the EU to the US?

Last edited by dunno what to put here; 11-09-2013 at 12:31 AM..
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Old 11-08-2013, 11:52 PM
Location: M I N N E S O T A
14,873 posts, read 19,000,746 times
Reputation: 9194
Originally Posted by Vladimir_ View Post
Inb4 "Wikipedia is not a valid source!"
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Old 11-09-2013, 02:01 AM
Location: Gorgeous Scotland
4,120 posts, read 5,013,405 times
Reputation: 3319
Originally Posted by 601halfdozen0theother View Post
Not many "wide open spaces" in Western Europe.

Plenty in the U.S. and Eastern Europe - and other places.

That's why I made my pick. Ultimately, politics is irrelevant.

I work with tourists in the U.S. - and Western European tourists are whiney whining whiners. Give me a Russian or an Argentinian any day of the week over an Italian or a German.
Really? Ever been to Scotland, Ireland? Saw quite a lot of wide open spaces in France as well.
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Old 11-09-2013, 11:18 AM
Location: Gorgeous Scotland
4,120 posts, read 5,013,405 times
Reputation: 3319
This is the original question:
if you were given one place to live for the rest of your life between the EU and USA, which would you pick ??

There are 28 countries in the EU. Comparing those to one country is ridiculous.
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Old 11-09-2013, 03:12 PM
6,324 posts, read 5,955,208 times
Reputation: 19270
Originally Posted by Ameriscot View Post
Really? Ever been to Scotland, Ireland? Saw quite a lot of wide open spaces in France as well.
Proved my point. Western Europeans have no concept at all of what "wide open spaces" look or feel like.
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Old 11-09-2013, 04:49 PM
Location: Leeds, UK
22,256 posts, read 25,748,959 times
Reputation: 8753
Originally Posted by 601halfdozen0theother View Post
Proved my point. Western Europeans have no concept at all of what "wide open spaces" look or feel like.
Of course we do - Scotland isn't densely populated. England is. NW Scotland is sparsely populated and is true wilderness in places. Ditto for parts of Spain and France. It's like me saying Americans do not know what wide open spaces look or feel like because they live in the US and not Canada or Australia.

Last edited by Rozenn; 11-09-2013 at 05:22 PM.. Reason: Orphaned
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Old 11-09-2013, 04:57 PM
Location: Paris
8,197 posts, read 7,415,602 times
Reputation: 3517
What's the threshold for something to be to be considered a wide open space?



Though, of course, the USA are unbeatable in the wide open plan category:

Last edited by Rozenn; 11-09-2013 at 05:28 PM..
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