Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > World
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-14-2013, 08:40 PM
 
Location: Canada
4,865 posts, read 10,523,785 times
Reputation: 5504

Advertisements

I think the points made were a big part of it, but another factor is that Spain is geographically situated right next to big markets and industrial powers in Europe, whereas Argentina is one of the wealthier nations in its regions. The close geographical proximity to foreign markets without doubt helped Spain prosper in a multinational manufacturing atmosphere that was moving to 'Just in Time' production strategies, not to mention ease of accessing tourists in North America and Europe, and it must also have helped its agricultural sector, being able to send fresh vegetables to colder Norther European climates in a way that Argentina couldn't. Lower shipping costs generally would also have been a factor.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-15-2013, 06:48 AM
 
7,855 posts, read 10,287,482 times
Reputation: 5615
spain is in an economically stronger region , that's the biggest reason
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-15-2013, 08:50 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Western Massachusetts
45,983 posts, read 53,463,557 times
Reputation: 15184
Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_bob View Post
spain is in an economically stronger region , that's the biggest reason
This is probably the biggest one. But does this make any sense? A combination of military coups and bad economic policies.

How Argentina Fell Behind the Rest of the World | MyFDL
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-15-2013, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
839 posts, read 3,072,653 times
Reputation: 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
This is probably the biggest one. But does this make any sense? A combination of military coups and bad economic policies.

How Argentina Fell Behind the Rest of the World | MyFDL
I read the article and it's a bit oversimplistic. It's useful for those who don't know anything about Argentina's modern history and Peron and want to be introduced quite lightly. But it really is too simplistic and misleading in some respects.

For example, the article says:

"In fact, the loss of the Malvinas War is one main reason that there are no more coups today (the other is the end of the Cold War). It’s the reason why Argentina returned to democracy. Argentina’s military lost a huge amount of prestige with it. People no longer felt any respect for an institution which had been humiliated in a war."

Well, no. The loss of the war was more like the last stroke... before April 1982, the military was already increasingly under scrutiny and going down in prestige (they had lost it long before anyway, I think). At that time, in 1982 and some years before, many of the terrible atrocities committed by the military were beginning to become exposed to the public, gradually.
At the time when the military decided to invade the Falklands/Malvinas, their image was already ver low. In fact, the decision to invade was very much motivated by that. Of course, the defeat at that war helped accelerate the fall of the military, but the fall was already underway.


"Perón (and his second wife Evita Perón) is a hero in Argentina, but outside the country he is regarded much more negatively for admiring fascism, for womanizing (he met his third wife as a nightclub dancer, which might have something to do with why she was a failure as president), and for his unsuccessful economic policies."

This is an overstatemt. I wouldn't say Perón is a hero in Argentina. I would say Perón is a hero for many in Argentina, perhaps for most, but the rest of Argentina loathe him, and I'm not talking only of the elites. Also the middle classes generally loathe him. (Remember that the middle class in Argentina has been traditionally much larger than in other Latin American nations).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-24-2013, 09:55 PM
 
71 posts, read 149,412 times
Reputation: 38
before franco spain was on par economically with most of europe though it was slower to catch onto the industrial revolution than many ither european nations. fascist franco with the help of hitler and mussolini won a very bloodied war and converted spain into one if the most backward countries in western europe. for example just before the civil war spain was manufacturing at the time the most advanced automobiles on earth in the hispano suiza. argentina on the other hand at about the same period of the 30s and 40s had become a sort of promised land for many europeans. but once the country started getting governed by similar fascist regimes whom many blame the usa of installing argentina fell into serious decline. ihave been to both countries and can say that spain is light years ahead as a modern society.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-28-2013, 02:03 PM
 
Location: In the heights
37,127 posts, read 39,371,920 times
Reputation: 21217
This is still pretty interesting. Are there any good academic papers comparing the trajectories these two countries went on? The article about military coups is interesting--does the military in Argentina to this day still maintain a large measure of autonomy from the rest of the government? This is especially interesting to note given what's happened in Egypt recently as well as sort of vague threats and cheers in regards to Turkey's military.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-26-2014, 01:09 PM
 
1 posts, read 998 times
Reputation: 10
Thanks
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-29-2014, 05:48 AM
 
1,470 posts, read 2,078,342 times
Reputation: 779
Quote:
Originally Posted by yofie View Post
Why has Spain become a much more modern country in the past 5-6 decades than Argentina (even if Spain has had a severe recession for almost 5 years now), given that they have broadly similar cultural backgrounds? Was it partly because Francisco Franco was a more pro-development dictator than Peron etc., and thus more like a Pinochet? I know that Spain has become modernized largely thanks to joining the EU, but that doesn't tell the whole story.

Spain was the 10th industrial power in the world the year that Franco died, 1975. At that time, Spain was not a EEC member, not NATO and almost no UN.

Argentina has a large mass of people that are not part of society; descamisados, cabecitas, white trash etc. That great mass always served dictators to impose their populist and stupid policies, Perón and Evita Perones initiated a long torment that ended in the dirty war, etc.

For example, Cristinita, the Viscount's Wife, is your typical corrupt politician, she's destroying the country, as his husband, they are all former terrorists.

Plus the great fact that Argentinian exports dropped because EEC's agricultural policy, US protectionism, etc.

Plus the fact that any Argentinian with brains will funnel his money to Miami, Panama, etc, that's why that Argentina is a very rich country if Argentinian money abroad is taken into account.

Why Spain is now developed? Francisco Franco Bahamonde, a more cohesive population, strong institutions inherited from Franco, strong army that maintained peace after 140 years of civil wars and the development of the Spanish industry and tourism thanks to the "desarrollismo" implemented by OPUS in 1959..leaving aside corporativist or fascist style economy.

Argentina should be compared to Italy, not Spain.

Last edited by Miserere; 09-29-2014 at 06:11 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-29-2014, 06:06 AM
 
1,470 posts, read 2,078,342 times
Reputation: 779
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catbelle View Post
I think that Marshall plan was not very generous in Spain, but I don't know about other possible helps. But maybe it wasn't due to any help, just development.
Well, Eisenhower....Spain did not see any light until Eisenhower visited Spain in 1959. American bases..Rota, Zaragoza, Torrejón de Ardoz. Tourism and Plan de Estabilización, 25 años de Paz, desarrollismo, growth rates of up to 20 or more percent every year. Spain had its own monetary policy and Franco had good relationships with Arabs..no oil crisis for Spain.

Argentina also helped giving away wheat for free in 1945? If it weren't by that wheat and meat, the population would be much lower now.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-29-2014, 08:55 AM
 
1,470 posts, read 2,078,342 times
Reputation: 779
Quote:
Originally Posted by rongens View Post
before franco spain was on par economically with most of europe though it was slower to catch onto the industrial revolution than many ither european nations. fascist franco with the help of hitler and mussolini won a very bloodied war and converted spain into one if the most backward countries in western europe. for example just before the civil war spain was manufacturing at the time the most advanced automobiles on earth in the hispano suiza. argentina on the other hand at about the same period of the 30s and 40s had become a sort of promised land for many europeans. but once the country started getting governed by similar fascist regimes whom many blame the usa of installing argentina fell into serious decline. ihave been to both countries and can say that spain is light years ahead as a modern society.

Right, Spain was quite advanced during the years of the I WW and during the 20's and even early 30's...and the Crack of 29' arrived during 1935-36...hence the civil war...

After the war, Spain stepped back decades and started to grow back during the early 50's...the first tourists, industrialsation, SEAT, etc.

Not only Hispano Suiza, there were many other makes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > World
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top