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I think you mixed me up with the other Australian dude who posted very lengthy posts lol... As for the second part - sure you don't have to be fascinated by it but if you do come by all means keep an open mind
Yes so I did .
But yeah, Toronto is not a bad city, I'm interested to at least check out most cities. I am interested in it, just to see how it compares to Australian cities. It's Canada's only prominent English speaking metro (3 million+) while we boast two. Montreal is really quite a unique city though. But yeah, I'm sure most Torontoans can understand why people don't flock to Toronto like they might to LA, SF, NY, or even Montreal. Probably could say the same for Melbourne. Sydney kind of has more of that appeal though.
You are right about the strengths of the cultural scenes but I am not sure outside of the Toronto area if there is much debate in Canada about which city is more artsy and cultured.
What's actually more interesting is why there is even a contest between Montreal and Toronto on this. Consider that starting from Montreal's metro population of 4 million, Toronto at 6 million is some 50% larger. And that the base population Toronto serves in English Canada is three times the size of French Canada served as cultural metropolis by Montreal.
It's pretty clear that Montreal punches way above its weight on this front, and Toronto punches below its weight.
The only reason Toronto is even in the race with Montreal is probably because it happens to be so much bigger.
The language things makes it a bit tricky to compare, since more culture in Toronto is English-based, and it's more prominent in Canada as a whole for that reason. Montreal is too French now to really reclaim top spot in Canada.
I wouldn't say Toronto is bland, but certainly Sydney has a stronger brand and identity.
I can't decide if I find the ''bbbbut... it's Sydney that's actually bland because it tries too hard'' comments from Torontonians either amusing or embarrassing (as a Canadian).
Oh please - the other guy was the one who levelled the claim that Toronto was bland and rather unfairly imo... I was tongue and cheek in response and was clear that I'd never say Sydney was bland because I haven't been there.. Spare the Toronto/Torontonians embarrass me as a Canadian nonsense. If you read through my posts I've been complementary to Sydney and never slighted the place... context matters!
I think you mixed me up with the other Australian dude who posted very lengthy posts lol... As for the second part - sure you don't have to be fascinated by it but if you do come by all means keep an open mind
I am far from being a person who thinks Toronto is a cultural desert, but I do think that if the city produced more stuff that was uniquely Torontonian and Canadian (and if people there didn't eschew domestic stuff for American stuff to such a large degree, and embraced their own stuff more), then perhaps people outside Toronto - including other Canadians and foreigners - wouldn't make so many of the types of comments (soul-less, bland, generic, lacking in personality, etc.) about Toronto that really irk Torontonians who care about such things.
Oh please - the other guy was the one who levelled the claim that Toronto was bland and rather unfairly imo... I was tongue and cheek in response and was clear that I'd never say Sydney was bland because I haven't been there.. Spare the Toronto/Torontonians embarrass me as a Canadian nonsense. If you read through my posts I've been complementary to Sydney and never slighted the place... context matters!
I am glad it was tongue in cheek. Thanks for the clarification!
And no, to be serious Torontonians don't embarrass me as a Canadian. Ever.
But yeah, Toronto is not a bad city, I'm interested to at least check out most cities. I am interested in it, just to see how it compares to Australian cities. It's Canada's only prominent English speaking metro (3 million+) while we boast two. Montreal is really quite a unique city though. But yeah, I'm sure most Torontoans can understand why people don't flock to Toronto like they might to LA, SF, NY, or even Montreal. Probably could say the same for Melbourne. Sydney kind of has more of that appeal though.
Toronto has great appeal for it's diverse nabe's and multicultural options.. It is the world in a city (as with some others of course) but in these realms that it shines brightest. Its also an urban destination (some call it 'messy urbanism') with a strong array of festivals and yes - it has its own unique architectural elements but that aren't as in your face as some other cities. They are extraordinarily layered and need to be found like some hidden gems but they are there for those who like to dig a bit. To be honest, in my travels some of the most interesting places are those that you actually do have to dig in order to find the prize.
I personally don't see the appeal of L.A vs S.F and NYC and would rather objectively visit Toronto over L.A - even if I were not from Toronto. I would however agree with your sentiments regarding S.F and NYC over Toronto for touristic appeal..
Another thing on Toronto's side is of course that it is only 90 minutes from Niagara Falls and makes a better urban stop if that is something one wants to visit over say.. Buffalo
I am far from being a person who thinks Toronto is a cultural desert, but I do think that if the city produced more stuff that was uniquely Torontonian and Canadian (and if people there didn't eschew domestic stuff for American stuff to such a large degree, and embraced their own stuff more), then perhaps people outside Toronto - including other Canadians and foreigners - wouldn't make so many of the types of comments (soul-less, bland, generic, lacking in personality, etc.) about Toronto that really irk Torontonians who care about such things.
Toronto is still new to the scene as Canada's largest city... 40 years isn't that long but I think the future will be kind to Toronto in this regard and it will simply happen without 'forcing' it..
The language things makes it a bit tricky to compare, since more culture in Toronto is English-based, and it's more prominent in Canada as a whole for that reason. Montreal is too French now to really reclaim top spot in Canada.
A big part of Toronto's emergence and growth is that is still by far the largest immigration portal in the country. The biggest part that actually detracts away from its 'uniqueness' vis-a-vie a city like Montreal is paradoxically and concomitantly its biggest strength.
Toronto has great appeal for it's diverse nabe's and multicultural options.. It is the world in a city (as with some others of course) but in these realms that it shines brightest. Its also an urban destination (some call it 'messy urbanism' with a strong array of festivals and yes - it has its own unique architectural elements but that aren't as in your face as some other cities. They are extraordinarily layered and need to be found like some hidden gems but they are there for those who like to dig a bit. To be honest, in my travels some of the most interesting places are those that you actually do have to dig in order to find the prize.
I personally don't see the appeal of L.A vs S.F and NYC and would rather objectively visit Toronto over L.A - even if I were not from Toronto. I would however agree with your sentiments regarding S.F and NYC over Toronto for touristic appeal..
Another thing on Toronto's side is of course that it is only 90 minutes from Niagara Falls and makes a better urban stop if that is something one wants to visit over say.. Buffalo
I'm from Australia, our cities are very multicultural. Where I live only 40% of people were born in Australia and most people don't speak English. Why would I want to travel halfway around the world just to see that? Of course I'd visit for other reasons. I've been all over Asian, so if anything perhaps the Caribbean culture in Toronto might be more of more interest. Who gets excited over Chinatown when they've been to Hong Kong?
For me LA's appeal is largely because of my fascination with 20th century pop culture, from music, films, TV.etc. The whiskey a go go might mean nothing to you, nor Griffith Observatory, but to me they do.
I'm from Australia, our cities are very multicultural. Where I live only 40% of people were born in Australia and most people don't speak English. Why would I want to travel halfway around the world just to see that? Of course I'd visit for other reasons. I've been all over Asian, so if anything perhaps the Caribbean culture in Toronto might be more of more interest. Who gets excited over Chinatown when they've been to Hong Kong?
For me LA's appeal is largely because of my fascination with 20th century pop culture, from music, films, TV.etc. The whiskey a go go might mean nothing to you, nor Griffith Observatory, but to me they do.
Fair enough - but there are many who would see the appeal of a multicultural and multi-ethnic destination as an interesting place to visit - all in one place. There are of course other appeals to the place and I think they will grow with time as the city continues to grow and gain in prominence.
I hear you about L.A - these things don't fascinate me as they do you but I respect the fact that we all have different interests.. Which is why I said I personally don't find L.A as appealing as S.F.. I'm gay and would far rather visit the Castro or Haight-Ashbury than I would Hollywood but different strokes for different folks.
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