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If Moscow disappears, a lot of political conflict will disappear. Maybe the 168 million people in eastern Europe and Russia (most of which are living in poor standards) will finally benefit from those rich oil reserves. Note that Saudia Arabia and Iran also has oil reserves and nuclear power.
It's not 168 million people in Eastern Europe and Russia, it's 168 million in Russia itself. And Eastern Europe is a different story from Russia these days post -Cold War as some nations are more aligned to the European Union and NATO and some are more aligned to Russia (and living standards as well vary). What goes on in Russia regarding oil reserves one way or another doesn't matter all that much to people in Budapest or Prague these days...
If Moscow disappears however(I've never understood how cities simply disappear in these sorts of discussions to begin with) or if the political power of Moscow falls apart you'd just have more political fragmentation in more separatist minded Russian republics(which leads to more conflict influencing neighboring states). I do not really understand your point however. Russia is still a major player for the immediate future, Saudi Arabia and Iran aren't close to having the influence as Russia even with their oil reserves.
The Bay Area is economically important and a hub of the tech world. However San Francisco isn't even the most politically important city just in California in terms of influence. Culturally, the Bay Area is important based mainly on tech culture, it's not really that big a cultural importer in other fields (the music scene was more important in the 60s through the early 90s than it is today) and it's not a film or tv production hub. Moscow on the other hand, is the main cultural hub for the entire expanse of Russia for the most part--which doesn't mean much to us non-Russians, but means entirely a lot to those within that cultural sphere...
And I'm not arguing all this because I'm a bigger fan of Russia vs the Bay Area. I'm basically grew up on the periphery of the Bay Area as well having lived in San Francisco for a little while and it's where the majority of my family lives and I still have a lot of love for the area. I have absolutely no love for Russia or their current government(and being half-Polish, I know the history of the Russians and my ancestors). But in terms of global importance overall, let's be realistic...
If Moscow disappears, a lot of political conflict will disappear. Maybe the 168 million people in eastern Europe and Russia (most of which are living in poor standards) will finally benefit from those rich oil reserves. Note that Saudia Arabia and Iran also has oil reserves and nuclear power.
If San Francisco / bay area would disappear, the world would feel an impact as information technology is an essential attribute of vital, daily activities.
Per 18MontClair, here're FACTS:
No, we just happen to be aware of the fact that at MOST OF THE WORLD is connected to each other via local companies. Billions of people a day. BILLIONS.
Nations by 5 most visited websites as of today according to alexa.com
Apart from the NYC/Hollywood media outlets and the images they beam around the world via music, tv, movies and related trends, I really don't know of anywhere that influences so many people in the world as intimately as the Bay Area.
If I'm wrong, please enlighten me?
Interesting stats, but please enlighten me how visting ones of these sites translates into a vital daily activity, as opposed to say running out of food, and not paying your energy bill. Seriously? You dont have google, so what? You cant find information? Thats ok, there are other different means. Can get facebook? Ok, so maybe you text someone, give them a call.
Images they beam around the world via music, tv and movies? Well, Bay Area doesn't create the actual music. I think the artist themselves are far more influential than Youtube. And if Youtube isnt around? Oh no, i guess we will have to listen to mp3, radio, tv or go to concerts. Same thing with moves tv's etc.
And phones? Cmon, that was ruled by Motorola (i know they got bought by google, but not when they had a significant marketshare), Nokia, Blackberry. Those are going downhill now, yet the world is ok, so there is no reason to believe that apple/android would cause this epic world failure should they get surpassed by Samsung or another company.
Again, i feel that there are people that put too much emphasis on technological advances. If you think so, because you can quantify capture a Cost-per-Click stat, and have this apples to unicorns comparison with Putin asserting his influence via moscow through in Syria, or flexing policies that impact Natural Gas creation and distribution across Europe thats fine.
It's not 168 million people in Eastern Europe and Russia, it's 168 million in Russia itself. And Eastern Europe is a different story from Russia these days post -Cold War as some nations are more aligned to the European Union and NATO and some are more aligned to Russia (and living standards as well vary). What goes on in Russia regarding oil reserves one way or another doesn't matter all that much to people in Budapest or Prague these days...
If Moscow disappears however(I've never understood how cities simply disappear in these sorts of discussions to begin with) or if the political power of Moscow falls apart you'd just have more political fragmentation in more separatist minded Russian republics(which leads to more conflict influencing neighboring states). I do not really understand your point however. Russia is still a major player for the immediate future, Saudi Arabia and Iran aren't close to having the influence as Russia even with their oil reserves.
The Bay Area is economically important and a hub of the tech world. However San Francisco isn't even the most politically important city just in California in terms of influence. Culturally, the Bay Area is important based mainly on tech culture, it's not really that big a cultural importer in other fields (the music scene was more important in the 60s through the early 90s than it is today) and it's not a film or tv production hub. Moscow on the other hand, is the main cultural hub for the entire expanse of Russia for the most part--which doesn't mean much to us non-Russians, but means entirely a lot to those within that cultural sphere...
And I'm not arguing all this because I'm a bigger fan of Russia vs the Bay Area. I'm basically grew up on the periphery of the Bay Area used to live in San Francisco and it's where the majority of my family lives and I still have a lot of love for the area. I have absolutely no love for Russia or their current government(and being half-Polish, I know the history of the Russians and my ancestors). But in terms of global importance overall, let's be realistic...
Great post, this thread should now be closed. In the words of Rick James, "ethnocentrism is a powerful drug"....or something like that.
World's best technology, venture capital, and knowledge workforce center
Vs.
Political power & oil tycoons of the Russia (top 10 GDP in the world but less than California's)
It's tough to argue because we are debating which concept is more important - technology or politics.
I personally would say the Bay has had a greater impact on the world today and therefore more important. The technologies out the Bay extend far beyond consumer products like iphones because you have to include the whole power of computers, the internet, and telecom which together are changing societies (including Russia and its military) across the world in so many direct and indirect ways. These are among the greatest inventions of modern times that is opening a new chapter for mankind and I'm not sure Moscow's importance in politics can surpass the Bay areas' achievements today. Moscow is a very important political (oil & military) center but today, the Bay area has touched/advanced more people around the globe than it has.
Now if you look at it from the political angle (and I get this point too) and go by which city houses decision makers which can impact more people then you have to say Moscow. But you can also say any capital city of a large population is more influencial than the Bay in that case too. For e.g. Jarkata is the capital of a country with 230million people so does its importance automatically get catipulted above San Fran?
Last edited by johnathanc; 10-21-2013 at 12:37 PM..
What is "far stretched" - is an idea that some Bay area can be globally more important than some political and military center. No tool can be more "globally influential" in this case, even if the tool is "extremely profitable."
And idea standing behind the tool can't compare with ideas standing behind ideology or geopolitics. Spiritual comes first, material is secondary.
Again - it's geopolitics that run the world, not Facebook and Twitter. The clash between geopolitical interests of Russia and the US is what really puts a spin on global events, not Yahoo.com.
You did not address the point, but rather danced around it.
Economists and sociologists researching geopolitical science will disagree with the amount of emphasis put on military and political power.
Which ideas from the Russian totalitarian ideology (that emerged from Moscow) has been implemented today? It did not put any spins. Most of the progressive world shunned the idealogy of Russia.
I like how Moscow's only argument is the fact that Russia has political ideology that most of the progressive world disagreed with.
The clustering forces of brains that thrived in a bohemian, liberal, progressive atmosphere of San Francisco gave birth to forces that drive the global economy today. It's organic. It's very difficult to wrap your head around it today but in the future, people will look back in awe at San Francisco.
The BRAIN is in San Francisco today. The corrupted politics is in Moscow, sure.
World's best technology, venture capital, and knowledge workforce center
Vs.
Political power & oil tycoons of the Russia (top 10 GDP in the world but less than California's)
It's tough to argue because we are debating which concept is more important - technology or politics.
I personally would say the Bay has had a greater impact on the world today and therefore more important. The technologies out the Bay extend far beyond consumer products like iphones because you have to include the whole power of computers, the internet, and telecom which together are changing societies (including Russia and its military) across the world in so many direct and indirect ways. These are among the greatest inventions of modern times that is opening a new chapter for mankind and I'm not sure Moscow's importance in politics can surpass the Bay areas' achievements today. Moscow is a very important political (oil & military) center but today, the Bay area has touched/advanced more people around the globe than it has.
Now if you look at it from the political angle (and I get this point too) and go by which city houses decision makers which can impact more people then you have to say Moscow. But you can also say any capital city of a large population is more influencial than the Bay in that case too. For e.g. Jarkata is the capital of a country with 230million people so does its importance automatically get catipulted above San Fran?
This pretty much sums everything I have been trying to say.
Also, some posters keep saying San Francisco is not even the most "important" in its own state or country. Therefore, it is not as important as Toronto and now, Moscow. This is what led to creation of this thread. How is that logical? San Francisco does not have to the most powerful in its state because the state of California alone has higher GDP and is wealthier than Canada and Russia.
The clustering forces of brains that thrived in a bohemian, liberal, progressive atmosphere of San Francisco gave birth to forces that drive the global economy today. It's organic. It's very difficult to wrap your head around it today but in the future, people will look back in awe at San Francisco.
The BRAIN is in San Francisco today. The corrupted politics is in Moscow, sure.
Well more like the "suburban, strip mall, cookie cutter suburban atmosphere of Silicon Valley" lol but I digress.
Sure "today", but what about the previous couple centuries? You keep focusing on the present without much regard to the past.
Let's put it this way. San Francisco has more influence on Moscow than Moscow has on San Francisco.
The techology advancements coming out of San Francisco has more impact on an ordinary citizen of Moscow.
A lot of people are probably overestimating that impact to begin with though.
Just like in a lot of countries, Google has been losing market share to local competitors. In Russia, 60 percent of web search traffic goes through Yandex(just like China uses Baidu) and that delta is widening.
Meanwhile the Iphone has had trouble selling in Russia, and the latest launch barely made a dent in the market.
On the other hand even with usage of Google or Youtube or Facebook in Russia, the government in Moscow can have the final say in censoring sites--or just shut down all access to these sites to begin with.
And it's really the influence of Silicon Valley, you're talking about, not San Francisco for the most part.
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