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Furthermore, I always believe its more humane to kill and eat wild animals than farm animals.
Because farm animals are locked up their entire life, no matter how well they are treated, they are still locked up and cant do the things that they are supposed to do naturally. Wild animals on the other hand lives free their entire life until one unlucky day. Even if it might take longer to kill certain wild animals, it is still more humane cause they have not lived on farms. The just a little bit longer time it may take to kill a wild animal (still usually less than 1 minute), its more humane cause the animal has in return been able to live in the wild. Unlike farm animals, these wild animals (everything from roe deers to whales) has been able to experience their natural environment.
Lets say we could raise pilot whales at farms. That we had them in pools where they could move around a bit, like pigs at farms in the UK and Norway and Sweden. And then slaughter them after a while with stunning and then a bolt gun to the head. What do you think would be the most humane? Doing it like that on farms, or hunting them in the wild like people do which still just takes less than 1 minute?
Last edited by Helsingborgaren; 12-09-2013 at 01:27 PM..
That's the EXACT SAME type of propaganda that the scumbags of the Swedish group "Animal Rights Alliance" used against the struggling fur farmers in my municipality Sölvesborg. They showed exceptional cases of cruelty at the farms in my area, to make it look like all fur farming is like that. Of course, they never ever mentioned that most fur farming in my area is humane, and I know its humane cause I have seen it with my own eyes and I know some of the fur farmers personally. I know how it is to be among the persecuted. By the way, the man talking in that video is a part of the Norwegian animal rights group NOAH, one of the groups that was part of the persecution against the fur farmers here in Sölvesborg in southern Sweden.
It seems fairly real to me, I am not a member of any animal rights or political group, however from the information I have come across from an array of sources, whaling does in fact seem to be very cruel and in terms of the whale meat, nobody consumes it other than the Japanese, and in the face of the Faroe Islands, the Chief Medical Officer has warned people not to eat due to high levels of mercury and PCBs. Whale meat would not in fact be considered safe in most first world countries even if it was legal. As for this tradition of whale hunting, according to Greenpeace, the Norwegians have no more history or tradition than the British or Dutch, and in terms of current whaling in Norway it only extends back as far as the 1930's. Hardly a history of great cultural tradition and significance.
Depends on which farms and which factories you are talking about.
I am all for tighter regulations and more compassionate farming methods, but farming should not be used as some form of twisted justification to continue the slaughter of whales in the wild. Indeed we eat the end product in farming, in terms of whale meat, it is often unsafe to eat and is not even generally eaten in Norway, Denmark or Iceland.
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Originally Posted by MagnusPetersson
They are misguided. For example, many people thinks its cruel to club seal pups just because they are seal pups, and not really paying attention to how quickly they are killed. The animal rights scumbags shows photos of white coat seal pups that are not even hunted, and gets the attention that way. They are the same type of people who persecuted my municipality for fur farming. People are extremely misguided if they believe that hunting whales and seals automatically makes it cruel. I have even showed evidence in a video earlier in this thread how you can effectively kill a pilot whale in 9 seconds.
That's not the evidence that I have seen, killing any large mammal is difficult and whaling is hardly an exact science and as for clubbing seal pups to death, do you honestly believe that is humane Magnus???
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Originally Posted by MagnusPetersson
Norway and Sweden also has some of the most stringent animal welfare laws in Europe and the world, along with the UK and Switzerland. For example at slaughterhouses in Norway and Sweden, the animal has to be stunned before slaughter and things like halal or kosher slaughter is not legal. Gestation crates are also outlawed. However, hunting laws are different. You cant have a law that all wild animals has to be stunned before you shoot them, I guess its like that in the UK as well as I dont think that hunters goes around stunning the deers before shooting them. And like in the UK, circuses are also beginning to phase out the wild animals in Norway and Sweden. And likewise, foie gras production is outlawed in Norway and Sweden as well, of course.
I am pleased to hear that you have such good animal legislation however it is sad that this legislation does not go further and cover marine mammals. In terms of Deer Hunting, that is also highly regulated in the UK and only the weaker deer are culled by expert marksmen, which is far different from indiscriminate slaughter.
It seems fairly real to me, I am not a member of any animal rights or political group, however from the information I have come across from an array of sources, whaling does in fact seem to be very cruel and in terms of the whale meat, nobody consumes it other than the Japanese, and in the face of the Faroe Islands, the Chief Medical Officer has warned people not to eat due to high levels of mercury and PCBs. Whale meat would not in fact be considered safe in most first world countries even if it was legal. As for this tradition of whale hunting, according to Greenpeace, the Norwegians have no more history or tradition than the British or Dutch, and in terms of current whaling in Norway it only extends back as far as the 1930's. Hardly a history of great cultural tradition and significance.
I am all for tighter regulations and more compassionate farming methods, but farming should not be used as some form of twisted justification to continue the slaughter of whales in the wild. Indeed we eat the end product in farming, in terms of whale meat, it is often unsafe to eat and is not even generally eaten in Norway, Denmark or Iceland.
It actually dates back to the 9th century here in Norway. The modern tradition is only around 90 years old.
Furthermore, I always believe its more humane to kill and eat wild animals than farm animals.
Because farm animals are locked up their entire life, no matter how well they are treated, they are still locked up and cant do the things that they are supposed to do naturally. Wild animals on the other hand lives free their entire life until one unlucky day. Even if it might take longer to kill certain wild animals, it is still more humane cause they have not lived on farms. The just a little bit longer time it may take to kill a wild animal (still usually less than 1 minute), its more humane cause the animal has in return been able to live in the wild. Unlike farm animals, these wild animals (everything from roe deers to whales) has been able to experience their natural environment.
Lets say we could raise pilot whales at farms. That we had them in pools where they could move around a bit, like pigs at farms in the UK and Norway and Sweden. And then slaughter them after a while with stunning and then a bolt gun to the head. What do you think would be the most humane? Doing it like that on farms, or hunting them in the wild like people do which still just takes less than 1 minute?
Whilst I welcome any move towards more compassionate farming, although it doesn't change the fact that whaling is cruel, or that the whale meat is full of toxins and usually not eaten outside of Japan. I would equally condemn the killing of sharks to make shark fin soup, another barbaric practice.
It seems fairly real to me, I am not a member of any animal rights or political group, however from the information I have come across from an array of sources, whaling does in fact seem to be very cruel and in terms of the whale meat, nobody consumes it other than the Japanese, and in the face of the Faroe Islands, the Chief Medical Officer has warned people not to eat due to high levels of mercury and PCBs. Whale meat would not in fact be considered safe in most first world countries even if it was legal. As for this tradition of whale hunting, according to Greenpeace, the Norwegians have no more history or tradition than the British or Dutch, and in terms of current whaling in Norway it only extends back as far as the 1930's. Hardly a history of great cultural tradition and significance.
The hunting of whales has always been a tradition on the Atlantic coast of Scandinavia, long before there even was something called Norway. The modern methods are OBVIOUSLY newer than that.
I will not listen to anything from eco-terrorist organisations like Greenpeace anymore than I would listen to what Al Queda has to say. I heard they captured some of them over in Russia, hope they will spend several years in prison as a reminder to other people what can happen if you mess with other countries.
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I am all for tighter regulations and more compassionate farming methods, but farming should not be used as some form of twisted justification to continue the slaughter of whales in the wild. Indeed we eat the end product in farming, in terms of whale meat, it is often unsafe to eat and is not even generally eaten in Norway, Denmark or Iceland.
In Denmark the sale of whale meat is outlawed since its a part of the EU. The Faroe Islands is exempt from that since they are autonomous and not a part of the EU, and therefore not affected by EU laws. Whaling in Denmark ended in the 1950's or 60's I think.
In Norway though, most of the whale meat is for domestic consumption, while some of it is exported to Japan, allthough most of it is consumed domestically. It also happens that Swedes who lives near the border consumes whale meat.
As for Iceland you are right, almost no one eats whale meat in Iceland and all fin whale meat is exported to Japan, however there is nothing wrong with that, its a job like any other. Similarly, none of the pelts from animals skinned here in Sölvesborg are sold in Sweden, they are instead exported to Russia and China since almost no one in Sweden wears fur coats.
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That's not the evidence that I have seen, killing any large mammal is difficult and whaling is hardly an exact science and as for clubbing seal pups to death, do you honestly believe that is humane Magnus???
Humane for me is the time it takes to kill an animal. Killing a seal, especially a young one, is a very easy task and takes a few seconds, and therefore its humane to club seal pups, cause they are killed quickly. The rest is just emotional BS and has nothing to do whether its humane or not.
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I am pleased to hear that you have such good animal legislation however it is sad that this legislation does not go further and cover marine mammals. In terms of Deer Hunting, that is also highly regulated in the UK and only the weaker deer are culled by expert marksmen, which is far different from indiscriminate slaughter.
Livestock slaughter laws will never affect hunting laws here, thats for sure.
I admit that hunting laws are a bit more liberal in both Norway and Sweden. For example here in Sweden, we have around 350,000 moose, and the annual hunting quota is 100,000. This is the largest moose hunt in the entire world, and is considered as a Swedish tradition. All hunters can take part in it, and there is hundreds of thousends of moose hunters in this country, and its also a popular activity open for tourist hunters from other countries like the UK and even as far away as from Australia.
Last edited by Helsingborgaren; 12-09-2013 at 03:12 PM..
Cause its a loophole in the IWC that you can hunt whales if you call it science. Another loophole is to simply object to the IWC moratorium on commercial whaling, and these loopholes are legal. Not that the IWC is some kind international of law-making entity anyway, they are not the UN.
PropagandaBuster (Tony Marano), one of my favourite youtubers and a great friend of mine, has lots of videos on Japanese whaling, exposing the anti-whaling lies and propaganda.
Whilst I welcome any move towards more compassionate farming, although it doesn't change the fact that whaling is cruel, or that the whale meat is full of toxins and usually not eaten outside of Japan. I would equally condemn the killing of sharks to make shark fin soup, another barbaric practice.
I also condemn the shark finning industry if you are referring to those who slices the fins off the sharks and throws them back in the sea alive. Thats unnessecary and indeed barbaric, since it takes such a long time for the sharks to die, and we are not just talking about minutes here, but hours or even days. I think the best thing to do is to reduce suffering as much as you can, and for sharks that would be to kill them before you cut their fins off. I dont see how that can be compared to whaling really, since whales are not butchered alive, they are killed before they are butchered. Very big difference there.
I was stating that wildlife hunting, including whaling, is more humane than any form of farming, including compassionate farming. This is for the reason that whales gets to experience their natural environment and live in it, which farm animals never gets to experience. Wild animals, whales included, suffers a little bit more unpleasent death (still just a matter of minutes or even seconds), but in return they get to experience their natural environment and living wild until one unlucky day.
For these reaons, whaling (and kangaroo hunting, deer hunting, seal hunting, moose hunting etc) is more humane than any form of farming, because wild animals gets to experience their natural environment which farm animals does not.
Last edited by Helsingborgaren; 12-09-2013 at 04:21 PM..
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