Why does it seem like many other countries are less focused on their Constitution than the USA? (mineral rights, 2014)
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Correct me if I am wrong, but I get the impression from looking at other countries, that the USA seems to put the Constitution in higher regard than some others, in terms of how likely people will bring it up when discussing politics even in everyday life, how much resistance there is for it is to be revised, changed or amended.
I notice many other countries' citizens are less focused on arguing whether something is Constitutional or not and also it seems to play less of a role in their legal systems and even in day-to-day argument/discussion on politics.
I'm not someone who is that knowledgeable about political science, but I'm curious as to if this is true. Is the focus/emphasis on the Constitution something really exceptional to the USA?
What about other nations that also have strong founding revolutionary identities, like France?
I have never, never, ever seen people from other countries pull the constitution card in discussions as often and in as many varied ways and in so many different topics as Americans do so I think it's an uniquely American idiosyncrasy. It blows me away!
Also I've observed that many Americans (including elders) believe it is unique to America and aren't aware that other countries have constitutions. I can't begin to tell you how many times I've been in online discussions with folks in America that have started a post with "I don't know how other countries do things but here in America we have this thing called the Constitution of U.S.A. and yadda, yadda, yadda ....." and then they've proceeded to describe what it is, who the founding fathers were that wrote it and all the rights they're endowed with by their constitution. When they were informed that my country and other countries also have constitutions and were provided with links to those other constitutions they were genuinely surprised. And then often got into wanting to make comparisons or critiques of other constitutions to show that the American constitution is better then any others.
So - yes, Americans seem to hold their constitution in exceptionally high regard and for some of them it's an obsession that they can't avoid bringing up in all manner of topics what they think is constitutional or unconstitutional. There's Strict Constitutionalists, Christian Constitutionalists, Libertarian Constitutionalists, Conservative Constitutionalists, Liberal Constitutionalists, University Constitutionalists ......they have whole societies devoted to constitutional law. There's the American Constitution Society, and the Constitution Society, and the American Christian Constitution Society, and the Constitutionalist Association ..... etc.
In the most recent, the federal government sought to have a law passed by the ACT legislature, providing for same sex marriage, struck down.
Here amendments to the federal constitution are a big deal, as they must be passed by voters in a majority of states, and a majority of voters overall.
Having the European Court of Human Rights is bad enough, never mind having a constitution used to defend the rights of gun nuts to keep high powered weapons.
It's strange that Americans go on and on about their constitution but when it comes to international laws they refuse to ratify most legislation, which ranges from trying to reduce land mines through to the international courts in relation to mass genocide and other such attrocities.
Most western countries do adhere to some form of constitutional framework whether it is written in one article or can be drawn from numerous sources, even the American Bill of Rights owes much to earlier documents such as the Magna Carta or the works of people such as Thomas Paine.
Furthermore many countries are bound by international bills of rights such as the European Convention on Human Rights or International Courts and Laws, which aren't as easily avoided as simply moving people to Cuba and reclassifying them enemy combatants, whilst denying them due process.
I can't speak about other countries but the US Constitution is a brilliant piece of work that has stood the test of time for well over 200 years and counting. The Founders wanted to protect against the tyranny of Government and the whims of the majority. The Constitution and the Common Law (both we siphoned from English) are an underrated cause of such great US success for over 200 years.
Our 2nd Amendment right to own firearms is not understood or highly favored by the world but it is essential to our Bill or Rights and limits our government from taking our rights away. It also ensures that we can never be truly conquered the way just about every other country has been in their past.
I can't speak about other countries but the US Constitution is a brilliant piece of work that has stood the test of time for well over 200 years and counting. The Founders wanted to protect against the tyranny of Government and the whims of the majority. The Constitution and the Common Law (both we siphoned from English) are an underrated cause of such great US success for over 200 years.
Our 2nd Amendment right to own firearms is not understood or highly favored by the world but it is essential to our Bill or Rights and limits our government from taking our rights away. It also ensures that we can never be truly conquered the way just about every other country has been in their past.
I don't see any more democracy in the US than in other western countries, in fact I see quite the reverse, particuarly post 9/11. Furthermore the US Constitution is often very vague, and is open to massive interpretation, indeed if it was such a great constitution in relation to protecting the rights of the individual and has been for 200 years, then why did parts of the US still have racial segregation as recently as the 1960's.
Whilst in terms of firearms, using the constitution as means for the NRA to object to any change is not healthy, especially in terms of high powered weapons. Nobody wants to see a ban on all guns but there must be a sensible policy in relation to increasingly high powered weaponry.
The US may not have been conquered in the past 200 years but neither have a lot of other countries many without constitutions, and in terms of modern warfare which can destroy whole cities within seconds at the flick of a button, I don't think a group of hicks armed with assault rifles is going to make that much difference.
Even during WW2, Hitler could quite easily have wiped neutral countries such as Switzerland off the map, what was the Swiss Airforce going to do against the Luftwaffe and the Germans would have simply used heavy artillery on Swiss towns and villages virtually wiping out the population, whilst destroying anything left standing with heavy bombing before starving any remaining population to death and then sending in crack SS Units, it's a fallacy that the Swiss escaped because they had guns, the Swiss escaped because they were a heavily blonde Germanic race, who Hitler quite liked and who he was prepared to let be as long as they didn't interfere in his plans for world dominance and a Germanic Aryan Master race not disimilar to the Swiss themselves. If Switzerland had been Jewish I am sure things would have been very different.
I can't speak about other countries but the US Constitution is a brilliant piece of work that has stood the test of time for well over 200 years and counting. The Founders wanted to protect against the tyranny of Government and the whims of the majority. The Constitution and the Common Law (both we siphoned from English) are an underrated cause of such great US success for over 200 years.
Well, considering that we now have what's basically a 2-party system that is more representative of the lobbyists who support them than the actual people who vote them in, are seeing the gradual paramilitarization of civic-level police forces and even the security branches of organizations like the IRS, obsessive flouting and roadblocking to things such as a woman's constitutionally-enshrined right to an abortion, and things of this nature... I would stop a little short of saying that it's been a success for over 200 years and raise a big red flag over the state of freedom and its future in the US.
Quote:
Our 2nd Amendment right to own firearms is not understood or highly favored by the world but it is essential to our Bill or Rights and limits our government from taking our rights away. It also ensures that we can never be truly conquered the way just about every other country has been in their past.
Honestly, as a firearm owner and enthusiast, I think that in many ways the gun culture in the US is just a way to pacify citizens into thinking that they could "defend themselves against tyranny." The NRA and gun lobby have done the government a massive service, whipping a large demographic into an obsessive frenzy over something that ultimately will barely effect their lives, while things like eminent domain seizures for mineral rights, the suppression of constitutionally-enshrined rights, dragnet wire/phone/email/web-tapping - things that actually can affect the quality of life for Americans - are run threadbare, and again, civil police forces around the country are given grants by Homeland Security to purchase APC's and military-grade hardware.
Thanks to this militarization, which strangely seems to have been cheered on by many gun nuts (maybe because they think that it'll be patriotic for big, cool guns and big, loud armored trucks to be used to destroy "the terrorists" that they think are going to implement Sharia law in Arkansas or Alabama?), the truism that if the government wants your guns, they'll come get them is truer than ever.
Norway will celebrate the 200-year anniversary of its constitution at the 17th of May 2014. I do not think the document itself is of much relevance for Norwegians as of 2014. What we celebrate on Constitution Day is primarly our independence.
Norway will celebrate the 200-year anniversary of its constitution at the 17th of May 2014. I do not think the document itself is of much relevance for Norwegians as of 2014. What we celebrate on Constitution Day is primarly our independence.
More than the constitution it should be noted and celebrated that no Nordic Country ever enforced serfdom. And our countries were the first to implement universal suffrage (with Australia).
Our constitution is just a piece of paper and has been altered numerous times. Not much left of the revolutionary French heritage. I don't even remember most of it, it states the national order and "all citizens are equal in the face of the law, and nobody should be judged by his/her ideas, religion blah blah and Finland has two national languages, Finnish and Swedish blah blah".
I don't see any more democracy in the US than in other western countries, in fact I see quite the reverse, particuarly post 9/11. Furthermore the US Constitution is often very vague, and is open to massive interpretation, indeed if it was such a great constitution in relation to protecting the rights of the individual and has been for 200 years, then why did parts of the US still have racial segregation as recently as the 1960's.
Whilst in terms of firearms, using the constitution as means for the NRA to object to any change is not healthy, especially in terms of high powered weapons. Nobody wants to see a ban on all guns but there must be a sensible policy in relation to increasingly high powered weaponry.
The US may not have been conquered in the past 200 years but neither have a lot of other countries many without constitutions, and in terms of modern warfare which can destroy whole cities within seconds at the flick of a button, I don't think a group of hicks armed with assault rifles is going to make that much difference.
Even during WW2, Hitler could quite easily have wiped neutral countries such as Switzerland off the map, what was the Swiss Airforce going to do against the Luftwaffe and the Germans would have simply used heavy artillery on Swiss towns and villages virtually wiping out the population, whilst destroying anything left standing with heavy bombing before starving any remaining population to death and then sending in crack SS Units, it's a fallacy that the Swiss escaped because they had guns, the Swiss escaped because they were a heavily blonde Germanic race, who Hitler quite liked and who he was prepared to let be as long as they didn't interfere in his plans for world dominance and a Germanic Aryan Master race not disimilar to the Swiss themselves. If Switzerland had been Jewish I am sure things would have been very different.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k
Well, considering that we now have what's basically a 2-party system that is more representative of the lobbyists who support them than the actual people who vote them in, are seeing the gradual paramilitarization of civic-level police forces and even the security branches of organizations like the IRS, obsessive flouting and roadblocking to things such as a woman's constitutionally-enshrined right to an abortion, and things of this nature... I would stop a little short of saying that it's been a success for over 200 years and raise a big red flag over the state of freedom and its future in the US.
Honestly, as a firearm owner and enthusiast, I think that in many ways the gun culture in the US is just a way to pacify citizens into thinking that they could "defend themselves against tyranny." The NRA and gun lobby have done the government a massive service, whipping a large demographic into an obsessive frenzy over something that ultimately will barely effect their lives, while things like eminent domain seizures for mineral rights, the suppression of constitutionally-enshrined rights, dragnet wire/phone/email/web-tapping - things that actually can affect the quality of life for Americans - are run threadbare, and again, civil police forces around the country are given grants by Homeland Security to purchase APC's and military-grade hardware.
Thanks to this militarization, which strangely seems to have been cheered on by many gun nuts (maybe because they think that it'll be patriotic for big, cool guns and big, loud armored trucks to be used to destroy "the terrorists" that they think are going to implement Sharia law in Arkansas or Alabama?), the truism that if the government wants your guns, they'll come get them is truer than ever.
Great posts, you two.
You know, I never understood how some folks can honestly believe this "defend themselves against tyranny" stuff.
Do they honestly believe that, should the US government choose to go bananas, they are even going to have a military to do it with? Do they really believe that the majority of their brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, sons and daughters, who make up the VOLUNTEER force which is the US military, are really going to go against them??? Maybe a few will, being "good soldiers", but for the rest....no way in hell. They'll just take what used to be the governments toys, and screw off with them.
I've said it many times; an American would sooner see the barrel of an Abrams tank pointed at the White House, before they ever see one pointed that their house.
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