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No idea what you are referring to, in regards to pornography laws.
Me either, even up here in conservative heartland, x rated porn has been freely available and distributed for as long as i can remember. Brothels were only made legal about 20 years ago in QLD .Not to say there was not any before that time, they just were mostly owned by the politicians and the police LOL.
You've missed my point. Most would consider "Liberalism" to be characterized by limitations on governments' ability to intervene in the economic, social or moral affairs of individuals.
Your moral affairs as an individual don't necessarily apply very strictly when you are working in a publicly-regulated, publicly-funded health care system where society has collectively decided which services will or will not be offered to citizens.
I am Australian and there could be a plebiscite on same sex marriage next year. If it happens I will vote no, as I do not support gay marriages. Yet if government here in Australia vote in same sex marriage instead of plebiscite, then even even though many people here would oppose it, as it has happened in Canada when it became legalised (I know most people in Canada and Australia support gay marriage btw)
Anyway in regards to politics ,the politician Pauline Hanson (Australia's version of Donald Trump) was right that political correctness is destroying a nation. I don't always agree what she has to say but she has every right to say what she already said as an elected member in Government, just like the Green Party
I think plebiscites on human rights are wrong. The tyranny of the majority.
I'm not going to try and convince you that you are wrong in not supporting equal rights for all of Australian's citizens, because people who are against equal marriage and will act to stop it, whether a plebiscite or other actions, are doing so out of ignorance. An ignorance that takes more that an internet forum to cure.
Whatever a persons reasons for being against another persons rights, those reasons are not democratic, or just.
Whether it's religion ( those are the worst, the cherry pickers of what they " believe ) or just because they have an icky factor in regards to gay people.
If you are equating equal rights to political correctness, then you have been sadly misinformed, or more likely using the backlash against true political correctness ( some of it justified ) to promote your own prejudice.
Me either, even up here in conservative heartland, x rated porn has been freely available and distributed for as long as i can remember. Brothels were only made legal about 20 years ago in QLD .Not to say there was not any before that time, they just were mostly owned by the politicians and the police LOL.
lol. We may never know. there is a brothel in Victoria, that is on the stock exchange -- lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci
I think plebiscites on human rights are wrong. The tyranny of the majority.
I agree, 100%. The only redeeming point of this, is that from countless polls, the majority is in favour. Also, the issue of undermining Australia's Parliamentary representative democracy, seems to be lost on the religious zealots.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci
I'm not going to try and convince you that you are wrong in not supporting equal rights for all of Australian's citizens, because people who are against equal marriage and will act to stop it, whether a plebiscite or other actions, are doing so out of ignorance. An ignorance that takes more that an internet forum to cure.
Whatever a persons reasons for being against another persons rights, those reasons are not democratic, or just.
Whether it's religion ( those are the worst, the cherry pickers of what they " believe ) or just because they have an icky factor in regards to gay people.
If you are equating equal rights to political correctness, then you have been sadly misinformed, or more likely using the backlash against true political correctness ( some of it justified ) to promote your own prejudice.
Personally, I think that's shameful.
It does look like a plebiscite won't go ahead (we'll know in a few weeks).
thanks to our parliament ..the opposition has the opportunity to block this. The independents have already said they will.
Recently, ol'Rupert Murdoch claimed Australia was ungovernable. I disagreed then, and I disagree now. We are electing minority governments, because we know we have a batch of incompetent politicians at the moment.
lol. We may never know. there is a brothel in Victoria, that is on the stock exchange -- lol
I agree, 100%. The only redeeming point of this, is that from countless polls, the majority is in favour. Also, the issue of undermining Australia's Parliamentary representative democracy, seems to be lost on the religious zealots.
It does look like a plebiscite won't go ahead (we'll know in a few weeks).
thanks to our parliament ..the opposition has the opportunity to block this. The independents have already said they will.
Recently, ol'Rupert Murdoch claimed Australia was ungovernable. I disagreed then, and I disagree now. We are electing minority governments, because we know we have a batch of incompetent politicians at the moment.
I know friends of mine in Australia are frustrated. Good to know about the possibility of the plebiscite not happening.
I often wonder how others would feel if their rights were put up to a vote. Imagine other minorities, like women or aboriginals putting up with it. I can't.
The little bit I have heard of the goings on in Australia in regards to equal marriage is much the same as was heard in Canada and then the US. The old sky is falling, society will fail and traditional marriage will be destroyed.
Of course what they mean by traditional marriage is a very limited view of mainly 20th century invention. Not the traditions of wives being property to be bartered with a dowry, or arranged marriage or even polygamy.
Anyway, the rantings, though fairly low, ( religious zealots don't have a lot of power ) in Canada were soon proved to be just that, rantings. After years of having equal marriage in Canada, the same type of zealots screamed the same type of things in the USA, but never bothering to check in places like Canada and Spain where equal marriage has existed for years, that NONE of their fears came true.
It seems the same in Australia. Has anyone pointed out directly to these people that places like Canada that have had equal marriage since 2005, that NOTHING horrible has happened?
I'm so glad it's a non-issue in Canada since if you do hear someone muttering negative things about equal marriage and their reasons they are against it, you have reality on your side to show them. It's not a " what if " anymore.
I think plebiscites on human rights are wrong. The tyranny of the majority.
I'm not going to try and convince you that you are wrong in not supporting equal rights for all of Australian's citizens, because people who are against equal marriage and will act to stop it, whether a plebiscite or other actions, are doing so out of ignorance. An ignorance that takes more that an internet forum to cure.
Whatever a persons reasons for being against another persons rights, those reasons are not democratic, or just.
Whether it's religion ( those are the worst, the cherry pickers of what they " believe ) or just because they have an icky factor in regards to gay people.
If you are equating equal rights to political correctness, then you have been sadly misinformed, or more likely using the backlash against true political correctness ( some of it justified ) to promote your own prejudice.
Personally, I think that's shameful.
If I had the opportunity to express my view if there was a plebiscite, I would state my view. I am a Christian and I believe God invented marriage and God has design and purpose of our sexuality. I know you and most people out there are likely not to believe that.
I have to add that our culture has accepted two huge lies. The first is that if you disagree with someone’s lifestyle, you must fear or hate them. The second is that to love someone means you agree with everything they believe or do. Both are nonsense. You don’t have to compromise convictions to be compassionate.
If a gay couple chooses to get married I won't stop it and I believe gay marriage will be legalised in Australia and worldwide too. It may not even be next year and may be after the next federal election.
I have gay friends and have worked with gay people too and I think they are great people btw.
I know friends of mine in Australia are frustrated. Good to know about the possibility of the plebiscite not happening.
I often wonder how others would feel if their rights were put up to a vote. Imagine other minorities, like women or aboriginals putting up with it. I can't.
It is very frustrating. Especially, as up until 2004, the Marriage Act merely stated a "union of two people". John Howard, at the time got wind that teh gayz might want to get married, so quietly just amended the Marriage Act in a mix of all this other legislation to be "man and woman"
If he never did that........ there would be no discussion. Therefore, it is possible to just change the marriage act, through parliament -- as they should -- and save $200 million from running a popular vote, which is not even binding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci
The little bit I have heard of the goings on in Australia in regards to equal marriage is much the same as was heard in Canada and then the US. The old sky is falling, society will fail and traditional marriage will be destroyed.
Of course what they mean by traditional marriage is a very limited view of mainly 20th century invention. Not the traditions of wives being property to be bartered with a dowry, or arranged marriage or even polygamy.
Anyway, the rantings, though fairly low, ( religious zealots don't have a lot of power ) in Canada were soon proved to be just that, rantings. After years of having equal marriage in Canada, the same type of zealots screamed the same type of things in the USA, but never bothering to check in places like Canada and Spain where equal marriage has existed for years, that NONE of their fears came true.
It seems the same in Australia. Has anyone pointed out directly to these people that places like Canada that have had equal marriage since 2005, that NOTHING horrible has happened?
I'm so glad it's a non-issue in Canada since if you do hear someone muttering negative things about equal marriage and their reasons they are against it, you have reality on your side to show them. It's not a " what if " anymore.
Canada, as an example has repeatedly been used as an example that the sky is where it has always been, and the nation didn't self implode.. We have been kind of shocked into action with the US/Ireland being more progressive than us... Which is how we got to this plebiscite issue. When Tony Abbott was PM (a raging Catholic) and hanging on to his role for dear life, there was a move remove him as leader of the party. One of the key issues being raised at this time, was marriage equality. He came up with this pop vote idea, on the back of Ireland having a pop vote (which they had to do -- we do NOT need a vote to change the Marriage Act).
Fast forward 18 months, a change in government --- and the promise of a vote, which now if they back down, its a "promise that they didn't deliver on" apparently (I think its more to just appease the right wingers of their party).
I totally disagree with a popular vote on any human rights issue.........human rights should not be dependent on the voice of the majority. If all of a sudden people voted to strip Aborigines of their citizenship or make it so the disabled no longer have equal rights, or repeal the law that women no longer had the right to vote and they just happen to pass a plebiscite, is that also kosher? Human rights are exactly that, rights. The fact that they are rights means they are inherent to ever person and cannot be repealed by some other party forming government.
All this said, I do understand the difficult legality of the issue some countries face. In Ireland it required Constitutional change but Constitutional change in Ireland can only be decided by the people thru a plebiscite.
All this said, I do understand the difficult legality of the issue some countries face. In Ireland it required Constitutional change but Constitutional change in Ireland can only be decided by the people thru a plebiscite.
But is that the same case for Australia?
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