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Old 02-19-2008, 02:43 PM
 
384 posts, read 1,645,047 times
Reputation: 320

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Style View Post
Jadel

First of all, my family is from a West African country (which I will not name here). So your attempt to dismiss what I have said based on my supposedly being a Black American doesn't hold here sweety. But the fact remains, it was African Americans who spear headed civil rights movements, it was them who suffered under the yoke of oppression in this country and it was them who struggled and died en masse for freedoms here. Your attempt to downplay the issue is beyond absurd. Yes, it was because of African Americans that you and every other non white immigrant can do what you do in this country. If African Americans didn't fight jim crow laws or if people didn't refuse to sit in the back of the bus or if they didn't fight for school integration then guess what? YOU would not be able to do much of anything you are able to do in this country right now. Lie to yourself all you want, down play it all you want, you are just reinforcing many stereo types I have heard people say about west indians.

No one is saying a small group of people other than African Americans may have been a part of the cause. Heck Jewish Americans and WASPS also played some role, but it was still the African American struggle. It was them who headed this front and them who were killed, beaten and tortured overwhelmingly in that particular struggle. If you don't get that then, don't worry about it.

The Afghanis over threw the Russians but, it was the Americans who gave them weapons and logistics. So who won the war? If you ask anyone with common sense they will tell you it was the Afghani fighters with HELP from Americans. Jews were given weapons and logistics from the Americans during the mid east wars, did America win or was it the Jews?

So common on now, stop it.

*edit*

Let me address your other comment. Why isnt that most of the drugs and gangs in UK are Jamaicans? Why is it that in Jamaica the poverty level far out weighs those who have? Why are Jamaicans on the bottom rung of society in UK? I mean after all they are so smart and they struggled to get free from colonial rule, they should be smart enough to take advantage of what their forefathers faught for?

My parents told me about when they came to NYC (before I was born) Flatbush was a decent area (thats a place in Brooklyn). Then the Jamaicans came in and ran it down (thats their words not mine). But according to you all these Jamaican immigrants are the salt of the earth and take full advantage here right? Same thing in South Florida where I live, some of the worst areas are majority Jamaicans, why is that?

Let me answer that for you, I have been many places and mingled with people from all over the earth. During my time on God's earth I realize one thing, people are people. Those with better economic conditions are going to have more access to better education, better jobs and so forth and so on. Those worse off will not have the same level of educational standards nor the same access to good jobs and so on and so on. Same is true for Jamaica, Nigeria, Lebonan and U.K.. You are probably young and have not traveled much and if you have traveled you have not spent much time observing your surrounding. There are tons of African Americans who are well off and have taken advantage of opportunities, heck I can take you to Harlem, Brooklyn, Atlanta and Chicago. In those places you will find Black areas that are extremely affluent and pre dominantly African American. Bill Cosby spoke about low income blacks but his rant wasn't well received because he addressed effects with out speaking about causes and not offering up any solutions. What sense is that? I hear people say "Africa is this and that' and to them I say so what. Either do something about it or shut up and this is my mentality on Cosby.

You go to France and you see Africans and Arabs on the bottom rung of society and they are selling drugs, joining gangs and doing all other sorts of stuff. Why is that? Because they have not been afforded the same opportunities as the rest of the country. You go to Australia and its the Lebanese and UK the Jamaicans and South Asians.

Oh and the statement you made that blacks in America have had everything handed to them is absolutely silly. There were tons of blacks who were beaten, hung from trees, imprisoned and so forth and so on for the rights minorities in America now have so you need to wake up from that dream you are in. You have acknowledged the civil rights movement and in doing so you should be able to deduce one thing. If things were handed out to African American then there would never have existed or been a need for the civil rights movement.


Ha that's funny because I was raised in Flatbush Brookly, attended both Midwood High School and Brooklyn College... Now I guess your parents who are Africans are judging by their dislike of Jamaicans, but despite that, having been raised in Flatbush from the early seventies through the 90's let me give you a little history that you may want to research. Prior to Flatbush being "overrunned by Jamaicans" are you are trying to put it, it was being over runned by Haitians who moved in once the whites moved out, they started their "dollar vans" without license and insurances and the area started to detriorate...then came the Jamaicans, not saying they made it any better, but the area did start to deteriorate before the Jamaicans came in. I am also sure that your parents did not mention to you the black Americans coming from the Vanderveer (which is a project that is only a walking distance from Flatbush) and started selling their drugs right there in plain view on the corners of Nostrand and Glenwood, Farragut and Nostrand Ave, Flatbush Avenue and Nostrand Avenue... you couldn't walk down the street without some fool trying to sell you drugs...some of those fools whom I had also attended school with...THAT MY FRIEND IS WHEN THE AREA REALLY STARTED TO DETERIORATE...so I suggest that you and your parents who apparently don't like Jamaicans get the facts straight, I know I lived it and I was there.. Secondly, I guess it all depends on who you talk to because those who I know in England...who happens to NOT be Jamaicans seem to really dislike the Africans (nigerians especially) and the Indians who are living there; however it is my understanding that there is a strong dislike between the Africans and the Jamaicans in England so I guess that explains why your African friends would say that because the Jamaicnas I know also seem to have bad views on Africans.
Now I don't recall ever stating that Jamaicans were the salt of the earth nor do i recall saying that they take full advantage of opportunities bestowed upon them but hey if that's what you want to believe who am I to try and change that. As hard as you may find it to believe, I was all for the British government imposing visas on Jamaicans....why? Because if you can't behave yourself when you go somewhere then your butts need to stay home. Would I marry a Jamaican and bring him here? Not a chance just as I wouldn't do the same for an African or any other person who does not have permanent residency here for fear of being used along with fear of bringing bad blood into the country....so don't tell me that I believe that Jamaicans are the salt of the world, like I said I am an equal opportunity hater of losers.....even if they are from my own country.

In regards to my statement of black Americans having things handed down to them, either you are still living in the past or unable to "deduce" the true meaning of my statement.but then again that's the problem with some of you, you are all still living in the past. Do you really believe that blacks from other countries who were also hung from trees, tortured and raped, has had the same opportunity bestowed upon them even after their freedome was gained? Why don't you ask those children who can't afford to go to school because education isn't free,,,,,,like Jamaica, kids who has to pay for uniforms, lunch, has to be in proper uniform before they can go to school, kids whose parents can't afford to send them to school due to poverty? Not many of them have the opportunity to get the government to pay for their schooling, or get educational grants of fundings for college and universites. How many of them will have the goverment provide for you will you earn an education? Do you think that People are leaving their country because life is easier there? That's why most of those who come here work hard for what they want because they know what a struggle is...but I guess when your family came from Africa life was easy and they were able to jump into the corporate world without having to work hard for it right? I suggest you start mingling with real people who has had to struggle when they come here and find out what life is really about and stop looking down on them because they can't understand why some Blacks born here don't realize what they have and why they take advantage of what they have. Then maybe you will understand why with all their morals and values most of them can't relate to African Americans.
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Old 02-19-2008, 02:54 PM
 
Location: Toledo
3,856 posts, read 7,997,017 times
Reputation: 3711
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadel812 View Post
My friends my dear has nothing to do with my point of view; my point of view is based on my experiences along with comments I have heard passed on. Especially by those who don't happen to know that I am not born of this country. Keep in mind people say one thing in front of your face and another thing behind your back so you may not always hear what one is really saying. Despite of that, if most black Americans are actually taking advantage of the opportunites being offered to them here, why are they the highest majority the lives below or within the poverty level in this country? Why is illiteracy still so high amongst blacks, why even though we are not the majority are more African Americans on welfare (are these the opportunities they are taking advantage of)? Sure I could go on and on with the questions and the information that my research has produced, but your friends are of the few that choose to do something with themselves. Do I look down on African Americans? No I don't I look down on those who choose to do nothing with their lives...INCLUDING those who come here from another country and try to live off the system, but I will state the fact as I see them and as they are produced by statistical analysis. Am I prejudice against African Americans? No I'm just an equal opportunity hater of losers who choose to do nothing with their lives as well as those who feel that the struggles that blacks went through in this country was theirs alone. Had this question been posed about white Americans, Jewish Americans, Asian Americans and foriegners who are non achievers my reaction and response would have been the same.



Historical Poverty Tables (http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/histpov/hstpov2.html - broken link)

Facts about African Americans in the Food Stamp Program, 4/19/07
According to the stats you provided, roughly 25% of black Americans are below the poverty level and use food stamps. I would hardly consider my friends and family members to be in the few (75%). Furthermore, your stats show a downward trend in the poverty level amongst blacks. So according to the stats provided, a lot of black Americans appear to be taking advantage of the opportunities available to them to break the cycle of poverty.
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Old 02-19-2008, 03:13 PM
 
384 posts, read 1,645,047 times
Reputation: 320
Hmmm is it now? why is it higher now than fiver years ago? You would believe that it should be on a steady decline not increase.



________________________________
All people All families
________________________________ ________________________________
Below poverty level Below poverty level
______________________ ________________________________
Year Total Number Percent Total Number Percent
__________________________________________________ __________________________
BLACK ALONE OR IN COMBINATION
2006...... 39,013 9,447 24.2 32,130 7,411 23.1
2005...... 38,551 9,517 24.7 31,663 7,459 23.6
2004 14/.. 38,037 9,411 24.7 31,468 7,495 23.8
2003...... 37,503 9,108 24.3 31,059 7,162 23.1
2002...... 37,207 8,884 23.9 31,008 6,985 22.5



Table 2. Poverty Status of People by Family Relationship, Race, and Hispanic
Origin: 1959 to 2006
(Numbers in thousands. People as of March of the following year.)

__________________________________________________ __________________________
People in families
________________________________
All people All families
________________________________ ________________________________
Below poverty level Below poverty level
______________________ ________________________________
Year Total Number Percent Total Number Percent
__________________________________________________ __________________________
BLACK ALONE
2006...... 37,306 9,048 24.3 30,621 7,072 23.1
2005...... 36,802 9,168 24.9 30,154 7,164 23.8
2004 14/.. 36,426 9,014 24.7 30,065 7,153 23.8
2003...... 35,989 8,781 24.4 29,727 6,870 23.1
2002...... 35,678 8,602 24.1 29,671 6,761 22.8



Table 2. Poverty Status of People by Family Relationship, Race, and Hispanic
Origin: 1959 to 2006
(Numbers in thousands. People as of March of the following year.)

__________________________________________________ __________________________
People in families
________________________________
All people All families
________________________________ ________________________________
Below poverty level Below poverty level
______________________ ______________________
Year Total Number Percent Total Number Percent
__________________________________________________ __________________________
BLACK
2001...... 35,871 8,136 22.7 29,869 6,389 21.4
2000 12/.. 35,425 7,982 22.5 29,378 6,221 21.2
1999 11/.. 35,756 8,441 23.6 29,819 6,758 22.7
1998...... 34,877 9,091 26.1 29,333 7,259 24.7
1997...... 34,458 9,116 26.5 28,962 7,386 25.5
1996...... 34,110 9,694 28.4 28,933 7,993 27.6
1995...... 33,740 9,872 29.3 28,777 8,189 28.5
1994...... 33,353 10,196 30.6 28,499 8,447 29.6
1993 10/.. 32,910 10,877 33.1 28,106 9,242 32.9
1992 9/... 32,411 10,827 33.4 27,790 9,134 32.9
1991 8/... 31,313 10,242 32.7 26,565 8,504 32.0
1990...... 30,806 9,837 31.9 26,296 8,160 31.0
1989...... 30,332 9,302 30.7 25,931 7,704 29.7
1988...... 29,849 9,356 31.3 25,484 7,650 30.0
1987 7/... 29,362 9,520 32.4 25,128 7,848 31.2
1986...... 28,871 8,983 31.1 24,910 7,410 29.7
1985 ..... 28,485 8,926 31.3 24,620 7,504 30.5
1984...... 28,087 9,490 33.8 24,387 8,104 33.2
1983 6/... 27,678 9,882 35.7 24,138 8,376 34.7
1982...... 27,216 9,697 35.6 23,948 8,355 34.9
1981 5/... 26,834 9,173 34.2 23,423 7,780 33.2
1980...... 26,408 8,579 32.5 23,084 7,190 31.1
1979 4/... 25,944 8,050 31.0 22,666 6,800 30.0
1978...... 24,956 7,625 30.6 22,027 6,493 29.5
1977...... 24,710 7,726 31.3 21,850 6,667 30.5
1976...... 24,399 7,595 31.1 21,840 6,576 30.1
1975...... 24,089 7,545 31.3 21,687 6,533 30.1
1974 3/... 23,699 7,182 30.3 21,341 6,255 29.3
1973...... 23,512 7,388 31.4 21,328 6,560 30.8
1972...... 23,144 7,710 33.3 21,116 6,841 32.4
1971 2/... 22,784 7,396 32.5 20,900 6,530 31.2
1970...... 22,515 7,548 33.5 20,724 6,683 32.2
1969...... 22,011 7,095 32.2 20,192 6,245 30.9
1968...... 21,944 7,616 34.7 (NA) 6,839 33.7
1967 1/... 21,590 8,486 39.3 (NA) 7,677 38.4
1966...... 21,206 8,867 41.8 (NA) 8,090 40.9
1965...... (NA) (NA) (NA) (NA) (NA) (NA)
1959...... 18,013 9,927 55.1 (NA) 9,112 54.9



Table 2. Poverty Status of People by Family Relationship, Race, and Hispanic
Origin: 1959 to 2006
(Numbers in thousands. People as of March of the following year.)
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Old 02-19-2008, 05:48 PM
 
3,162 posts, read 4,205,276 times
Reputation: 4202
I just want to add something here:

Jamaicans and Arabs in the UK refuse to assimilate. Africans, Chinese and Indian newcomers do very well in the UK and are very well represented in Britians middle and upper classes. Africans and Arabs in France however, are shut out becuase it seems France has a bad economy and it's more convenient to live off the dole in general in Europe anyway.
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Old 02-19-2008, 05:55 PM
 
Location: America
6,993 posts, read 16,296,811 times
Reputation: 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadel812 View Post
Wild Style,
Do give my intelligence some credit. Of course I knew you weren't African American for many reasons. First of all, your usage of the word "Innit" is definitely NOT an American phrase, but rather widely used by British as a variation of Americans usage of "aint it". Secondly, you have mentioned that your African relatives in England had some rather negative views of Jamaicans...so again that told me that you were NOT African American; however due to the fact that you seemed to have not considered yourself to be a foreigner along with your motto beneath your name you seem to have separated yourself from being a foregner yourself. Nevertheless, my recollection of my dispute with you was to also inform you that OTHER RACES NOT ONLY BLACK AMERICANS were also involved in the fight for equality. Though you may try to deny my actual dispute with you, the messages are still posted as a back up to what I have originally disputed.

Regardless of the fact, as I can see from many of your stated opinions, you are what you are which is someone who has little regard for black foreigners even if you are one yourself.
This is going to sound crazy but "some of my best friends are Jamaican" lol. Seriously, out of my entire crew growing up I was the only non West Indian in the entire group. I have also had best friends from India, Pakistan, Latin America and so on and so on. So don't think I have any ill will toward non Americans. I like PEOPLE, if your a good person then I can deal with you and if your not a good person then I won't deal with you. With that said, I don't believe in looking down on people, thats silly. For every reason a person can have for looking down on a group, I can show you several examples that show your people do the exact same things, given the proper circumstances. As for being a foreigner, I was born in Brooklyn NYC and America is my home. My family is from else where and while I love my culture and heritage it does not negate my nationality (American).

As I said before, bottom line is, if African Americans didn't fight the fight then other minorities would not be able to enjoy certain privileges. Its just that simple.
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Old 02-19-2008, 07:28 PM
 
Location: Toledo
3,856 posts, read 7,997,017 times
Reputation: 3711
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadel812 View Post
Hmmm is it now? why is it higher now than fiver years ago? You would believe that it should be on a steady decline not increase.
It appears that whites, blacks, and to a lesser extent, Asians saw an increase in their poverty levels in the last 5 years. With Asians the change appears to be more random than with blacks and whites. Hispanics are the only group that had somewhat of a pattern of decreasing poverty levels. The increase is more marked in blacks but this pattern is hardly unique to us.


Table 2. Poverty Status of People by Family Relationship, Race, and Hispanic
Origin: 1959 to 2006
(Numbers in thousands. People as of March of the following year.)

__________________________________________________ __________________________
People in families
________________________________
All people All families
________________________________ ________________________________
Below poverty level Below poverty level
______________________ ________________________________
Year Total Number Percent Total Number Percent
__________________________________________________ __________________________
WHITE ALONE
2006...... 237,619 24,416 10.3 196,061 16,644 8.5
2005...... 235,430 24,872 10.6 194,277 16,782 8.6
2004 14/.. 233,741 25,327 10.8 193,024 17,445 9.0
2003...... 231,866 24,272 10.5 192,074 16,740 8.7
2002...... 230,376 23,466 10.2 190,823 16,043 8.4



Table 2. Poverty Status of People by Family Relationship, Race, and Hispanic
Origin: 1959 to 2006
(Numbers in thousands. People as of March of the following year.)

__________________________________________________ __________________________
People in families
________________________________
All people All families
________________________________ ________________________________
Below poverty level Below poverty level
______________________ ______________________
Year Total Number Percent Total Number Percent
__________________________________________________ __________________________
WHITE
2001...... 229,675 22,739 9.9 190,413 15,369 8.1
2000 12/.. 227,846 21,645 9.5 188,966 14,692 7.8
1999 11/.. 225,361 22,169 9.8 187,833 15,353 8.2
1998...... 222,837 23,454 10.5 186,184 16,549 8.9

cut..


Table 2. Poverty Status of People by Family Relationship, Race, and Hispanic
Origin: 1959 to 2006
(Numbers in thousands. People as of March of the following year.)

__________________________________________________ __________________________
People in families
________________________________
All people All families
________________________________ ________________________________
Below poverty level Below poverty level
______________________ ________________________________
Year Total Number Percent Total Number Percent
__________________________________________________ __________________________
WHITE ALONE, NOT HISPANIC
2006...... 196,049 16,013 8.2 159,572 9,676 6.1
2005...... 195,553 16,227 8.3 159,204 9,604 6.0
2004 14/.. 195,098 16,908 8.7 159,221 10,323 6.5
2003...... 194,595 15,902 8.2 159,215 9,658 6.1
2002...... 194,144 15,567 8.0 158,764 9,389 5.9



Table 2. Poverty Status of People by Family Relationship, Race, and Hispanic
Origin: 1959 to 2006
(Numbers in thousands. People as of March of the following year.)

__________________________________________________ __________________________
People in families
________________________________
All people All families
________________________________ ________________________________
Below poverty level Below poverty level
______________________ ______________________
Year Total Number Percent Total Number Percent
__________________________________________________ __________________________
WHITE, NOT HISPANIC
2001...... 194,538 15,271 7.8 159,178 9,122 5.7
2000 12/.. 193,691 14,366 7.4 158,838 8,664 5.5
1999 11/.. 192,565 14,735 7.7 158,550 9,013 5.7
1998...... 192,754 15,799 8.2 159,301 10,061 6.3

cut...



Table 2. Poverty Status of People by Family Relationship, Race, and Hispanic
Origin: 1959 to 2006
(Numbers in thousands. People as of March of the following year.)

__________________________________________________ __________________________
People in families
________________________________
All people All families
________________________________ ________________________________
Below poverty level Below poverty level
______________________ ________________________________
Year Total Number Percent Total Number Percent
__________________________________________________ __________________________
ASIAN ALONE OR IN COMBINATION
2006...... 14,331 1,447 10.1 12,463 984 7.9
2005...... 13,731 1,501 10.9 11,931 1,039 8.7
2004 14/.. 13,291 1,295 9.7 11,661 876 7.5
2003...... 12,891 1,527 11.8 11,266 1,116 9.9
2002...... 12,487 1,243 10.0 10,742 816 7.6



Table 2. Poverty Status of People by Family Relationship, Race, and Hispanic
Origin: 1959 to 2006
(Numbers in thousands. People as of March of the following year.)

__________________________________________________ __________________________
People in families
________________________________
All people All families
________________________________ ________________________________
Below poverty level Below poverty level
______________________ ________________________________
Year Total Number Percent Total Number Percent
__________________________________________________ __________________________
ASIAN ALONE
2006...... 13,177 1,353 10.3 11,428 912 8.0
2005...... 12,580 1,402 11.1 10,911 970 8.9
2004 14/.. 12,231 1,201 9.8 10,734 812 7.6
2003...... 11,856 1,401 11.8 10,333 1,017 9.8
2002...... 11,541 1,161 10.1 9,899 763 7.7



Table 2. Poverty Status of People by Family Relationship, Race, and Hispanic
Origin: 1959 to 2006
(Numbers in thousands. People as of March of the following year.)

__________________________________________________ __________________________
People in families
________________________________
All people All families
________________________________ ________________________________
Below poverty level Below poverty level
______________________ ______________________
Year Total Number Percent Total Number Percent
__________________________________________________ __________________________
ASIAN AND PACIFIC ISLANDER
2001...... 12,465 1,275 10.2 10,745 873 8.1
2000 12/.. 12,672 1,258 9.9 11,044 895 8.1
1999 11/.. 11,955 1,285 10.7 10,507 1,010 9.6
1998...... 10,873 1,360 12.5 9,576 1,087 11.4

cut...


Table 2. Poverty Status of People by Family Relationship, Race, and Hispanic
Origin: 1959 to 2006
(Numbers in thousands. People as of March of the following year.)

__________________________________________________ __________________________
People in families
________________________________
All people All families
________________________________ ________________________________
Below poverty level Below poverty level
______________________ ______________________
Year Total Number Percent Total Number Percent
__________________________________________________ __________________________
HISPANIC (of any race)
2006...... 44,784 9,243 20.6 39,177 7,650 19.5
2005...... 43,020 9,368 21.8 37,759 7,767 20.6
2004 14/.. 41,690 9,122 21.9 36,438 7,705 21.1
2003...... 40,300 9,051 22.5 35,469 7,637 21.5
2002...... 39,216 8,555 21.8 34,598 7,184 20.8
2001...... 37,312 7,997 21.4 33,110 6,674 20.2
2000 12/.. 35,955 7,747 21.5 31,700 6,430 20.3
1999 11/.. 34,632 7,876 22.7 30,872 6,702 21.7
1998...... 31,515 8,070 25.6 28,055 6,814 24.3

cut...


Also do you want to address the fact that most black Americans are experiencing some degree of success, or do you want to continue to believe that my friends and family are the "few" who take advantage of opportunities available to them.
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Old 02-19-2008, 08:53 PM
 
4,282 posts, read 15,040,265 times
Reputation: 3974
I'm not sure where the original topic asking for World perception of African Americans went, but it's been a while since it's been the topic of discussion.

The thread has become a debate amongst several US-based posters regarding who did what with regard to civil rights, alleviating poverty, etc.

Those latter topics are better discussed in the General US forum or the Politics forum.
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