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Old 08-17-2014, 05:34 PM
F18
 
542 posts, read 530,031 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RudyOD View Post
Aw, okay, thanks for the insight. Do you know if there are any official numbers on country to country migration within the EU?
A Good place to check would be Eurostat, the official statistics for the EU countries plus Switzerland and Norway as well as the smaller European nations. The national statistics for each individual country usually provide numbers on the quantity of people entering their countries. Note that not all countries provide these statistics such as France (at least from the EU countries). The UK usually uses the number of National Insurance Numbers given to each person independently their nationality as it compulsory to obtain one of these if You want to work in the UK.
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Old 08-18-2014, 06:21 AM
 
37 posts, read 42,747 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caprivi View Post
Its not like millions of People are migrating, its more like Ten-thousands. And the birth rates of south european countries are mostly higher than in the north. I guess there might be a million people More in the north than in the south in Ten years. But thats not really a significant number. But i think without the language barrier it could have been a problem.

No, birth rates are not higher in Spain and Italy and the economic depression at least in Spain is over. Spain is the eleventh economy in the world.

As to the "braindrain", in Spain too many people obtained degrees that were not needed, so they are leaving. For example, there are far too many doctors, I think it's the second country in the world in doctors per capita, so all the surplus goes to neighbouring country. There are more lawyers than in the US, and more psychologists than in Argentina.
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Old 08-18-2014, 06:27 AM
 
37 posts, read 42,747 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RudyOD View Post
Yeah, but seniors aren't marrying others and having children, right? So even if net numbers from south to north end up evening out, if it is the young migrating to the north, that's where the population growth should happen due to future births.

The way it is explained, it is as if Spain/Southern Europe is becoming Florida (a giant senior center), but, to be fair, Florida has decent economic prospects and is growing in important fields like bio-medicine.

Then again, European birth rates are below self-replacement, so the fact that the young are going north and the old south, might not make much of a difference. (?)

[This is all theorizing on my part, so input on the reality of things is greatly appreciated.]



First, southern Europe is not Mexico. Birth rates are lower than in Northern Europe and the US.

Spain is not a giant senior center, seniors in Andalusian coasts are leaving. There are new laws to avoid Social Security overburden due to foreigners. Spain has better economic prospects than Florida and better bio-technology, health and hospitals.
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Old 08-18-2014, 11:43 AM
 
Location: Buena Park, Orange County, California
1,424 posts, read 2,491,058 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krispin Klander View Post
First, southern Europe is not Mexico. Birth rates are lower than in Northern Europe and the US.

Spain is not a giant senior center, seniors in Andalusian coasts are leaving. There are new laws to avoid Social Security overburden due to foreigners. Spain has better economic prospects than Florida and better bio-technology, health and hospitals.
I'm not sure what that is supposed to mean, as Mexico's birthrate is barely above self-replacement levels right now, and will go below replacement levels within a couple years if the trend continues. Either it was an unnecessary comparison, or an ignorant one.

If what you tell me is true (which it looks like it is at 1.36 birthrate in Spain vs 1.9 in Sweden), than I hope that Southern Europe is taking steps to bring a young immigrant workforce or risk becoming a giant senior center, the way Japan is going (as they have an aversion to immigrants).

As for the last statement, I'm not sure how much of it is true or not. I'm not a fan of Florida myself, but I wouldn't toss it aside, as it has some of the leading centers of biotechnology, research and universities in the U.S., and if it is leading in the U.S., it is leading in the world as the U.S. still produces the most patents and research than any other country. Basically, I would't take that state lightly or make such rash comparisons without first providing real numbers to make your case.

Either way, it's great that things are looking up for Spain...as I think it was kind of screwed over to begin with.
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Old 08-18-2014, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Buena Park, Orange County, California
1,424 posts, read 2,491,058 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F18 View Post
A Good place to check would be Eurostat, the official statistics for the EU countries plus Switzerland and Norway as well as the smaller European nations. The national statistics for each individual country usually provide numbers on the quantity of people entering their countries. Note that not all countries provide these statistics such as France (at least from the EU countries). The UK usually uses the number of National Insurance Numbers given to each person independently their nationality as it compulsory to obtain one of these if You want to work in the UK.
Thanks for the info!
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Old 08-18-2014, 12:04 PM
 
37 posts, read 42,747 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RudyOD View Post
I'm not sure what that is supposed to mean, as Mexico's birthrate is barely above self-replacement levels right now, and will go below replacement levels within a couple years if the trend continues. Either it was an unnecessary comparison, or an ignorant one.

If what you tell me is true (which it looks like it is at 1.36 birthrate in Spain vs 1.9 in Sweden), than I hope that Southern Europe is taking steps to bring a young immigrant workforce or risk becoming a giant senior center, the way Japan is going (as they have an aversion to immigrants).

As for the last statement, I'm not sure how much of it is true or not. I'm not a fan of Florida myself, but I wouldn't toss it aside, as it has some of the leading centers of biotechnology, research and universities in the U.S., and if it is leading in the U.S., it is leading in the world as the U.S. still produces the most patents and research than any other country. Basically, I would't take that state lightly or make such rash comparisons without first providing real numbers to make your case.

Either way, it's great that things are looking up for Spain...as I think it was kind of screwed over to begin with.

Florida only has the hub of Orlando, as to Health and Biotechnology, of course Spain is above Florida.

Screwed over?

Not really, most of the economy here is submerged.
Governments might pose as "social-democrats" but people's pockets belong to the tea party.
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Old 08-18-2014, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Buena Park, Orange County, California
1,424 posts, read 2,491,058 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krispin Klander View Post
Florida only has the hub of Orlando, as to Health and Biotechnology, of course Spain is above Florida.

Screwed over?

Not really, most of the economy here is submerged.
Governments might pose as "social-democrats" but people's pockets belong to the tea party.
This is not the thread for it, as it would be way off topic to continue in this direction, but please do back up such statements with numbers...as no one within the biomedical/biotechnology world (that I know) automatically associates Spain with Health and Biotechnology, the way California, Florida and Massachusetts (Boston) . I'm not arguing that what you are saying isn't the case, but to actually support it.

As for Florida, it has more than Orlando: http://www.enterpriseflorida.com/wp-...es-florida.pdf (go to page 3)

Spain, doesn't even (unfortunately) rank within the top 5 in Europe: (2012) Denmark again comes out in a top position within biotechnology innovation | Silicon Valley Tech Talk
(2014) 2014 Scientific American Worldview Overall Scores : worldVIEW

On the other hand, Spain placed fifth in intensity this year (after Denmark, Australia, the US, and Singapore), meaning it is investing a lot more resources into biotech than other countries, which will hopefully mean a much stronger foothold within the field in the future: Intensity : worldVIEW
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Old 05-20-2020, 10:02 AM
 
4,147 posts, read 2,972,089 times
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The Californians to Texas, because Texas is its own country, as is the Democratic People's Republic of Canada and California!

HKers to Taiwan, for Taipei's very low cost of living and slow pace of life. (IMO they should just head for Texas, too, but Taiwan is trying to admit lots of Hong Kongers as a political statement against China, and I respect that).
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Old 05-20-2020, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Canada
274 posts, read 174,845 times
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Canada get's Immigration from many first world nations.

Usa (More Canadians go the other way though)

Uk (500,000 brits living in Canada)

South Korea brings about 20,000 every 5 years, with a population of around 300,000. Not to mention 180,000 Japanese who are also here.

There are about 250,000 Italians living in Canada

We also get about 5000 French a year, mostly in Quebec, as someone stated earlier

Whether China is a developed country is highly debatable, but we have over 600,000 of them

https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-r...&GC=01&TOPIC=7

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/dail...428-3&indgeo=0
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Old 05-20-2020, 10:57 PM
 
1,136 posts, read 527,743 times
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Developed ones vary greatly by environment, welfare policies, safety, tolerance of immigrants, work hours and salaries.

Some people in South Korea, Japan, Singapore, Hong Kong and Taiwan are still moving to western countries if they like western societies. But most people in these places are NOT very interested in living in western societies.

Taipei is definitely not real cheap and slow pace. Somewhere in the Phillippines, Cambodia or inland China is very cheap and slow pace, and are only a few hours flights from HK.

Taiwan to HK people is like Southern Europe to the British, Germans, Swiss and Scandinavians. Close, cheaper but not the cheapest in the world. Taiwan is more expensive than nearby most of Mainland China and Southeast Asia and SLIGHTLY more developed than these nearby cheaper places. Rich HK people or HK people fluent in English are more likely to move to an English speaking country than the Chinese speaking Taiwan if they want to leave HK. HK is a great place to earn big money so the rich people usually don't sell their properties when they leave HK and may go back often to visit people and manage their businesses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by markovian process View Post
Here's partly what I was thinking about with my thread. http:////www.city-data.com/forum/wor...immigrate.html

In general a lot of immigration is from poorer countries to richer ones, like Mexican immigration to the United States (which actually now is balanced out by Americans moving to Mexico so the net rate is zero). Historically there have been lots of examples in the New World, like Italian immigration to Argentina, Japanese immigration to Brazil, and then the immigration slowed once the poor sending country was no longer poor.

But in which cases, is rich country to rich country immigration still common? Off the top of my head, I can think of Brits going to Australia and NZ, Kiwis moving to Australia, Canucks moving to the US (often for a larger job market), as well as was mentioned in that thread, French moving to Canada. Typically, a lot of this immigration is probably job- or career oriented or retirement as expats.

Which examples are significant and still ongoing between rich countries? What is probably the most large group of migrants between two rich countries today?

Last edited by Tomboy-; 05-20-2020 at 11:17 PM..
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