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Old 12-17-2007, 12:55 AM
 
Location: In the sticks of Illinois
498 posts, read 1,466,969 times
Reputation: 164

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GracieJJ View Post
You mentioned and suspect lead in toys which would come under the term i used (unhealthy substances), which you think could be the cause for behaviour disorders, with me so far?

What im saying to you is that, Asian countries in general have very poor health services and serious environmental issues, such as lack of fresh clean tap water but are heavily inhygenic and heavily polluted with lead and allsorts of nasty things. And despite all the hardships ie majority of people below poverty, poor or lack access to health care, they still manage to pull out sensible obedient, educated individuals.

Hi Gracie, I guess we could both agree that I speaking of Americans and you are speaking of Asians, therefore your concentrations are on the Asian children while mine are on the American children. The hardship is exactly the reason for their sensible obedient, educated individuals. I was wondering do they have sports in their school? And yes, I think it is safe to say we do have serious environmental issues here as well. With that being said, our children are out of control. THey do not know respect or manners. THere are an exceptional few though.
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Old 12-17-2007, 01:26 AM
 
Location: Obama playing field
715 posts, read 2,013,056 times
Reputation: 394
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNITE View Post
Hi Gracie, I guess we could both agree that I speaking of Americans and you are speaking of Asians, therefore your concentrations are on the Asian children while mine are on the American children. The hardship is exactly the reason for their sensible obedient, educated individuals. I was wondering do they have sports in their school? And yes, I think it is safe to say we do have serious environmental issues here as well. With that being said, our children are out of control. THey do not know respect or manners. THere are an exceptional few though.

What im really saying is that its nonsense to speculate that lead in toys have anything to do with it when other countries too have had their fair share of lead but manage to churn out well balanced individuals.

Asians concentrate more on academics whilst sports are merely regarded as nothing more than past times.

Im not entirely sold on the idea (though it is a factor) that its their hardship that is a determining factor because Asians here in the Us still manages to instill the importance of a good eduation and obedience onto their youngsters.

I know the same could be said about kids in England (UK) having lived a good portion of my life there, only a few from privilage backgrounds make good of themselves. Kids there now lack the discipline since they abolished corporal punishment and have gone over the top with regards rights of children.

This is the price for not enforcing discipline in the learning environment. kids have too much of the good life.
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Old 12-21-2007, 11:53 PM
 
Location: Sacramento, CA
1,196 posts, read 4,605,818 times
Reputation: 614
It is all about culture. Asian cultures tend to promote good work ethics, and respect. On the other hand, in the US it is "cool" to act out in class, or get bad grades, or smoke/drink. The US culture is extremely screwed up, many people are obsessed people like Paris Hilton, Britney Spears, Lindsay Lohan, etc.
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Old 12-22-2007, 04:08 AM
 
20,793 posts, read 58,676,527 times
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In many other countries by the time kids are high school level the bad eggs have been weeded out. Students have to pass various tests to continue on in their education, not so in the US. Those students that aren't performing are shuffled into the work world while those that are doing well in school remain. For the most part, hard working students are NOT your discipline problems, even in the US.

I was reading on another board about 2 8th grade girls that got caught cheating on a reading assignment. One mom accepted the punishment the school handed out and added more at home while the other parents are taking their 'issue' the the school board because their darling would NEVER do something like that. Tell me what this girl is going to be like in a few year--THERE is where your discipline problems come from in 99% of the cases.

When I was teaching I could tell with about 99% accuracy which parent belonged to which child when/if they showed up for parent/teacher conferences. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree as they say.
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Old 12-22-2007, 06:18 AM
 
Location: Central CT, sometimes NH.
4,145 posts, read 6,104,203 times
Reputation: 5036
I just talked to my brother in South Korea last night. He says that the kids are publicly caned. Those administering discipline pull down the child's pants and cane them across the buttocks.

He questions the value of the punishment as it doesn't necessarily deter the children from not behaving appropriately or following a rule and sometimes the punishment seems way more severe than the infraction.

He does say that kids are more compliant and mannered overall but it may be due to the fact that there is little diversity among the students and they are very homogeneous in their beliefs, interest, and motivations.
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Old 12-22-2007, 06:55 AM
 
Location: Dallas, Texas
3,589 posts, read 3,737,210 times
Reputation: 533
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfgal View Post
In many other countries by the time kids are high school level the bad eggs have been weeded out. Students have to pass various tests to continue on in their education, not so in the US. Those students that aren't performing are shuffled into the work world while those that are doing well in school remain. For the most part, hard working students are NOT your discipline problems, even in the US.

I was reading on another board about 2 8th grade girls that got caught cheating on a reading assignment. One mom accepted the punishment the school handed out and added more at home while the other parents are taking their 'issue' the the school board because their darling would NEVER do something like that. Tell me what this girl is going to be like in a few year--THERE is where your discipline problems come from in 99% of the cases.

When I was teaching I could tell with about 99% accuracy which parent belonged to which child when/if they showed up for parent/teacher conferences. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree as they say.
The UK used to select pupils based on ability for secondary education; the good students got sent to one school, the poor-performing ones got sent to another. They're supposedly not permitted to do that anymore (though according to the grapevine it still goes on).

The age at which students can leave school is 16, so you're supposedly only supposed to get the cream of the crop at a sixth form college. Talking to some of my former neighbors in the UK, they complained about discipline problems at the local sixth form colleges; our estate could choose between two of them and there was a good 50/50 split of kids from the neighborhood going to each one.

And the whole "my child didn't do this/this is all your fault" thing exists in the UK too. Some teachers and school administrators have been physically assaulted in the UK by parents when they've attempted to discipline unruly children. The UK used to cane students and did so at least into the 1980s, but they're not even allowed to touch students anymore. I hear they can't even fight back if a student attacks them, and according to a former teacher that I used to work with they're not even allowed to use red pens to grade papers!

I knew several teachers in the UK teaching levels from primary all the way through to college/university. They all reported discipline problems, and the university lecturer complained that the Physics students didn't know as much now as what his peers knew when he matriculated as a Physics student in the early 1980s. My ex worked at the local university there and remedial instruction was a huge issue on campus. Some lecturers were even pushing to add another year to a degree; currently most degrees in England/Wales take three years to complete. They say they're wasting almost the entire first year teaching them things they should have learned at A/AS level (16-18 years old). I think this ties in to discipline problems and the fact that the UK is trying to boost the percentage of British adults with a bachelor's degree. They're having to dumb down the tests to do it, and unsuitable students with discipline problems are becoming a bigger issue in secondary education, taking away from instructional time. In the end, everyone loses.
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Old 12-22-2007, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Ocean Shores, WA
5,080 posts, read 14,143,894 times
Reputation: 10788
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdave01 View Post
It...Asian cultures tend to promote good work ethics, and respect...
In the inner city school where my wife works, Asian parents hold teachers in high regard and respect them as someone who has had a "calling" and who's job it is to make things better for their children.

Many Black parents see teachers as representatives of "The System" who's job it is to oppress them and maintain the status quo.

The Mexican parents, especially new arrivals tend to think more along the lines of the Asians, while the Whites from the lower economic strata tend to agree more with the Black attitude.

The attitude of the students, mirrors that of their parents, and determines their behavior in the classroom.

Of course this is a gross generalization, as there are many good Black students with involved parents, and many Asian kids who are downright hellions, but if one were to make a categorical assumption it would ring fairly true.
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Old 12-23-2007, 10:36 PM
 
Location: Sacramento, CA
1,196 posts, read 4,605,818 times
Reputation: 614
Good post Freddy, it is very true.
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Old 12-27-2007, 09:45 PM
 
Location: Piedmont NC
4,596 posts, read 11,022,130 times
Reputation: 9162
Having recently retired from the US public schools, I contend many students act-out because they are bored out of their minds in the classroom. They are raised in homes where there is little interaction with adults, and sit for hours in front of TVs and/or computers, watching movies and shows of little or no substance, play games, and are just generally 'over-stimulated.'

TV for babies, and electronic toys? Give me a break. Ten-year-olds with cell phones and tvs in their rooms, with a private collection of dvds, computers and video games. Children are watching cartoons and movies in automobiles, for crying out loud. Interesting research being done these days on over-stimulation at a young age and autism, attention-deficit disorders.

When they begin school, the too-traditional classroom is UNstimulating, and too few teachers are truly creative enough to reach these children. They also generally have poor classroom management techniques/styles and too timid a presence with the children -- which is often not even the teacher's fault, but largely the teaching college's.

Add to that, parents who are often too busy to be bothered with their children, and try to make up for it by over-indulging them, often with material things and a lack of discipline. People in general have a disrespect for others, and that is conveyed to our youth.

There is no single reason for all of what we see in our schools today, just as there is no single or simple solution. One of the biggest downfalls of No Child Left Behind is that the weight of a child's education seems to rest solely on the school, and the school can't do it alone.

I used to want to get parents to let me take their children home with me to raise, as well as try to teach in my classroom.
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Old 12-28-2007, 03:06 AM
 
Location: In the sticks of Illinois
498 posts, read 1,466,969 times
Reputation: 164
Smile Unite

Quote:
Originally Posted by RDSLOTS View Post
Having recently retired from the US public schools, I contend many students act-out because they are bored out of their minds in the classroom. They are raised in homes where there is little interaction with adults, and sit for hours in front of TVs and/or computers, watching movies and shows of little or no substance, play games, and are just generally 'over-stimulated.'

TV for babies, and electronic toys? Give me a break. Ten-year-olds with cell phones and tvs in their rooms, with a private collection of dvds, computers and video games. Children are watching cartoons and movies in automobiles, for crying out loud. Interesting research being done these days on over-stimulation at a young age and autism, attention-deficit disorders.

When they begin school, the too-traditional classroom is UNstimulating, and too few teachers are truly creative enough to reach these children. They also generally have poor classroom management techniques/styles and too timid a presence with the children -- which is often not even the teacher's fault, but largely the teaching college's.

Add to that, parents who are often too busy to be bothered with their children, and try to make up for it by over-indulging them, often with material things and a lack of discipline. People in general have a disrespect for others, and that is conveyed to our youth.

There is no single reason for all of what we see in our schools today, just as there is no single or simple solution. One of the biggest downfalls of No Child Left Behind is that the weight of a child's education seems to rest solely on the school, and the school can't do it alone.

I used to want to get parents to let me take their children home with me to raise, as well as try to teach in my classroom.

I just read a story today about a Washington teacher. I think you will find it very interesting. I know I don't have any right to ask you this, but would you go to edweek.org and read the story about this school firing a teacher against the parents' will? One of the reasons is because she was too motherly> The people and parents are livid about this. They are asking for support from anyone. I am not a teacher so I do not know the gist of the curriculum they speak of. But I did post 3 comments. Can I get your take on this? If not, it's ok. Just curious. THanks for listening.
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