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Old 09-15-2014, 05:10 PM
 
Location: 'Back in the midst of a world gone mad'
165 posts, read 190,018 times
Reputation: 245

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbesdj View Post
What are you smoking?

Only a tiny fringe minority of southerners consider independence. Half of the population which is black want nothing to do with it. The only ones who ever talk about it are ultra-conservative radical butthurt bumpkins who are so wrapped up in their delusions of grandeur that they still dream of resurrecting the Confederacy. Generally southerners are among the most patriotic Americans. You present it as if 10,000 lunatics out of 100+ million people are somehow the true representatives of the state governments or the southern populace.
Most Southerners are very patriotic. In fact, a lot of our military has a lot of Southerners in it. A lot of Southerner's love America. That is not the problem. The problem is what our country is becoming. To think it's just a small fringe of southerners that are somehow dis-enchanted couldn't be further from the truth.

In fact, I'm heard from more and more people that these concerns are growing all over the country now.

People are talking about the dollar collapsing. Whether it does or doesn't, the fact that it is even being debated is a huge problem! Our gov't is spending more money than it even takes in. We are BORROWING money to keep going. We are getting further and further in debt!

This is NOT SUSTAINABLE! We WILL crash if this continues. Noone in DC is doing ANYTHING about it! Nothing.

We keep printing money like there is no problem with that, as the dollars worth drops, and then they turn right around and come up with something new to spend more money on. Again, they are doing nothing to stop this. They are the ones doing it.

Our infrastructure is crap! Yet they do nothing about it and pour more and more money into everywhere around the world.

How many bases do we have now in other countries? I've honestly lost count! 180 or so? For what? Look at the money we are pouring into to that alone! The cost of leasing those bases, apts, hiring local workers, cost of troops, etc... , that cost has to be astronomical!

How about bringing them back here and putting them on our own borders to keep us safe?

Pay all that money to border cities all over the border to make and lease bases and give Americans the jobs needed for them. Let that money be spent in OUR ecomony, as well as the soldiers pay. Yet again, they don't do that.

They leave our border wide open. Our country cannot sustain the mass imigration we are getting! It's just a fact. That is not even counting the criminals coming in. Again, our gov't does nothing.

Yeah make sure you frisk little granny at the airport, but ignore the entire border that we know criminals are using to come in.

Our own gov't is spying on us and listening to our phone calls, reading text messages, has Google and other companys storing everything on us.

These are just a few things off the top of my head. Our gov't is doing nothing about any of it. In fact, the gov't is the one doing it.

There are a lot of people now finally waking up and seeing that none of this is sustainable. We've had a few states talk about starting their own gold standard currency. Our country is in a mess and our own gov't keeps making things worse, much less trying to fix anything. Look at all their stupid laws and regulations that have cost us so many jobs!

Look at the growth hormones and stuff they are putting in our foods. Our food is killing us! This list goes on and on, and this is before even talking about social issues of the American people.

This isn't about being patriotic. This isn't about loving our country. And if you think it is just some small fringe group worried about all of this, then you are sadly mistaken. People are honestly looking at the situation and seeing the reality of the mess we are in, and a govt that refuses to do anything to stop it and is the actual cause of most of it, and continuing to make things worse.

You can laugh about it and scoff all you want, but nothing changes the situation we're in in this country. The reality is there for anyone to see.

I love my country, always have always will, but I'm not blind and neither are a lot of other people.
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Old 09-15-2014, 05:50 PM
 
Location: Midwest
4,666 posts, read 5,103,395 times
Reputation: 6829
Florida...it isn't a region, but it is the biggest cesspool in America. It is the perfect trashy blend of hillbilly, ghetto, and vomit inducing tackiness. It is a slightly more sophisticated and intelligent version of the future USA in Idiocracy (which is a pretty funny movie).
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Old 09-15-2014, 06:00 PM
 
338 posts, read 335,684 times
Reputation: 162
Well, some Texans go on about indepence, I don't want that, I'm a federalist
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Old 09-15-2014, 06:11 PM
 
Location: Kent, UK/ Cranston, US
657 posts, read 804,411 times
Reputation: 871
Well, there is Scotland.
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Old 09-15-2014, 06:47 PM
Status: "From 31 to 41 Countries Visited: )" (set 23 days ago)
 
4,640 posts, read 13,937,354 times
Reputation: 4052
There are noticeable active separatist independence movements in plenty of countries all over Planet Earth. Some separatist movements are more prominent, and get more widespread support than other separatist affiliations that are more subtle, and barely affect a country. Those most extreme separatist occurrences have potential to severely affect a nation, and usually don’t have enough rational premise in main intentions to happen, causing some quite eccentric actions to occur there.


Where I live right now currently in USA, I notice there is a rather subtle Cascadia independence movement with Oregon, Washington state, and together with British Columbia of Canada. I believe it is possible for Cascadia to get successful, even if subtle right now. There is also noticeable, not too extreme separatist thinking in California, Vermont, Hawaii, Alaska, and Texas. Most people don’t seem to know about quite an active 51st state proposal in Southern Oregon+ Northern California called Jefferson. I can’t believe nobody mentioned Puerto Rico’s peculiar, arbitrary attachment to USA, and technically not a 100% separate country yet. There is definitely a strong separatist independence movement occurring there with Puerto Rico.


Outside of USA, there is a bunch of separatist movements capturing my attention. Almost nobody outside of Romania really knows about 70%-90% ethnic Hungarian majority in Harghita, and Covasna county provinces of Central Romania because of remnants of historical legacy with Transylvania and parts of Austro-Hungarian empire back then. There was even a recent protest occurring in Budapest Hungary about those 2 counties joining Hungary, or becoming a separate country right in middle of Romania. However, situation is stable enough, and I doubt any independence is going to happen there in Harghita, Covasna counties.

I find Quebec in Canada another noticeable, yet much more known independence movement happening, and much more likely to happen in final end results.

Tibet, and Xinjiang regions of China is stirring quite some controversy over there, although I am skeptical they are ever going to separate from China.

Dagestan region of Southwestern Russia along Caspian sea coastline is extremely unknown to lots of foreigners. Dagestan is technically Russia’s most ethnically heterogeneous diverse province republic region where no ethnic group forms a majority, covers a large area, only 3-4% ethnic Russian, and majority Muslim, barely any Russian Orthodox Christians. Rampant conflict is occurring there, and Dagestan is really desperately trying to separate from Russia.

Abkhazia in Eurasian Georgia is one the most eccentric, and ridiculous things I have ever heard about, and displacing up to 250,000+ ethnic Georgians, and a fake independent state only partially recognized to some nations.

Last edited by ; 09-15-2014 at 06:58 PM..
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Old 09-15-2014, 09:13 PM
 
Location: Mid Atlantic USA
12,623 posts, read 13,958,642 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by SthrnCarolinaGrl View Post

Our infrastructure is crap! Yet they do nothing about it and pour more and more money into everywhere around the world..


Lol, and which party has a lock on the South? Which party has no interest in spending the money to fix our infrastructure, but would rather we be the world policeman with bases and troops all over the planet? Have you listened to Southerner Lindsey Graham this weekend screaming on the news about how much we need troops on the ground in Syria? Can you name one Republican Politician that wants to cut the military to improve our infrastructure? None.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SthrnCarolinaGrl View Post

How many bases do we have now in other countries? I've honestly lost count! 180 or so? For what? Look at the money we are pouring into to that alone! The cost of leasing those bases, apts, hiring local workers, cost of troops, etc... , that cost has to be astronomical!

How about bringing them back here and putting them on our own borders to keep us safe?
Again, which party supports military adventures everywhere? Have you listened to McCain and Graham and the rest of the Republicans screaming that Obama is trying to remove us from the world? The Republican Party, which controls every southerner bare a few tiny percentage points of whites in the South(only democrats in the South are blacks for the most part), consistently screams for loads more money for the military, and huge domestic cuts including infrastructure. When are you Southerners gonna wake up and realize you are dupes for the Republican Party as they get you to vote on religion and abortion. Stupid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SthrnCarolinaGrl View Post

Look at the growth hormones and stuff they are putting in our foods. Our food is killing us! This list goes on and on, and this is before even talking about social issues of the American people..
I love this one. I just listened to a long program on NPR about the movement to get large agricultural interests to label all GM food and put in place strict regulations, as Europe does, and a bill in Congress to do this very thing. Guess which party is adamant that they will not support that kind of interference in the market place? Guess which lobbyists swarm Capitol Hill with money to block it? The rich corporate lobbyists own the Republican Party, that is why they are against campaign finance reform. The food industry in this country has made it plainly clear that they will never support labeling of GM food cause they know it will cut into their profits.

I sure hope you are the very rare Southerner that does not vote Republican, because these issues you raised above will never, ever be changed by the Republican Party.

The problem with the South and this faux patriotism is that it is based solely on the idea that the Fed Govt should stay out of everything, and only be one huge military complex all over the world. From what I have seen very few Southerners are for a Fed Govt that addresses the problems you raised above. And Southern states will never, ever take on the issues you raised.
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Old 09-15-2014, 09:16 PM
 
Location: Mid Atlantic USA
12,623 posts, read 13,958,642 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahhammer View Post
Well, some Texans go on about indepence, I don't want that, I'm a federalist

Too bad. If more Texans were for independence, the rest of us might be able to move the country forward to face all the problems we have.
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Old 09-15-2014, 09:27 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,588 posts, read 27,433,199 times
Reputation: 9059
Quote:
Originally Posted by STB93 View Post
In America most likely none wants to break apart from the main country. Everyone seems really happy with being together.
Who told you that?
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Old 09-15-2014, 09:39 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,588 posts, read 27,433,199 times
Reputation: 9059
Quote:
Originally Posted by SthrnCarolinaGrl View Post
Actually there are reasons why they did it the way they did. I can assure you, Southerner's have a full understanding of secession. We also have a full understanding of how our gov't can work for you, and also against you.

A lot of people that wanted to, wouldn't even sign the petitions. People were talking it about it everywhere. They didn't want to put their names on something like that. That should speak volumes in itself.

The fed gov't has stated their position, that there is no right to secession. They mean it. Over the years several politicians have made comments, that talk about secession is nothing short of treason. No threats, but you got the point.

The Supreme Court hearing in 1869, backed the gov't up in saying that states did not have the right to secede. I have full confidence they will always back the gov't up.

There are quite a few American citizens that also feel that talk of secession is an act of treason. I heard quite a few people say that those who signed the petitions should be tried for treason.

NC, SC, TN, Texas, Florida, Georgia, Alabama, and Louisianna all submitted a We the People, to Obama. He had up to one month to give an answer by law. He said no.

This was a gaging of where the American public, as well as those state's politicians stood on the issue. That pretty well stopped it, again. The truth is, the Supreme Court will NEVER side against Washington on this. To think it ever will is to believe in fairy tales.

Not all Southerners want secession, there are a lot that don't. There are a lot that still try to have faith in the country, that we will all find a common ground. Unfortunately fighting and name calling takes the place of any serious discussions, and the gov't and media push the division like there's no tmr.

Too many people don't want to hear certain subjects disected, broken down, and truly discussed. You cannot have a country that will not discuss some of it's biggest issues.
Your post proves nothing other than the ability for both the US government and other Americans to alienate people further than they may be already.

Let me repeat what I said; the president does not have the authority to grant nor deny secession. That is not one of the powers of the executive branch so Obama saying no was little more than symbolic.

As for the Supreme court cases; their decisions were not based on anything in the constitution simply because the constitution does not mention secession at all. It was suggested to John Adams I believe it was to add that to the US constitution. He specifically said no that outright forbidding secession would negate the fact that the states are in a voluntary union and that a free country with such a stipulation wouldn't really be free. To that end, there is no law in this country that technically forbids secession.

Another thing people like yourself need to realize is, if there is enough popularity in a secession movement, the laws of the dominant country would become irrelevant, just like they did under King George when 13 of his colonies seceded.

Another thing you need to understand is that the USA is not some permanent final product. No nation is. We are living through one of many transitions and one day, change will again come. The USA that we know will not last forever whether it be through a break up, more states added etc. As of yet, no US president has ever died under the same flag he was born under. Let that sink in a bit.
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Old 09-15-2014, 10:05 PM
 
Location: 'Back in the midst of a world gone mad'
165 posts, read 190,018 times
Reputation: 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom77falcons View Post
Lol, and which party has a lock on the South? Which party has no interest in spending the money to fix our infrastructure, but would rather we be the world policeman with bases and troops all over the planet? Have you listened to Southerner Lindsey Graham this weekend screaming on the news about how much we need troops on the ground in Syria? Can you name one Republican Politician that wants to cut the military to improve our infrastructure? None.





Again, which party supports military adventures everywhere? Have you listened to McCain and Graham and the rest of the Republicans screaming that Obama is trying to remove us from the world? The Republican Party, which controls every southerner bare a few tiny percentage points of whites in the South(only democrats in the South are blacks for the most part), consistently screams for loads more money for the military, and huge domestic cuts including infrastructure. When are you Southerners gonna wake up and realize you are dupes for the Republican Party as they get you to vote on religion and abortion. Stupid.



I love this one. I just listened to a long program on NPR about the movement to get large agricultural interests to label all GM food and put in place strict regulations, as Europe does, and a bill in Congress to do this very thing. Guess which party is adamant that they will not support that kind of interference in the market place? Guess which lobbyists swarm Capitol Hill with money to block it? The rich corporate lobbyists own the Republican Party, that is why they are against campaign finance reform. The food industry in this country has made it plainly clear that they will never support labeling of GM food cause they know it will cut into their profits.

I sure hope you are the very rare Southerner that does not vote Republican, because these issues you raised above will never, ever be changed by the Republican Party.

The problem with the South and this faux patriotism is that it is based solely on the idea that the Fed Govt should stay out of everything, and only be one huge military complex all over the world. From what I have seen very few Southerners are for a Fed Govt that addresses the problems you raised above. And Southern states will never, ever take on the issues you raised.
Ummmmm, in case you didn't notice, I'm not a republican. So why you are going off on me about republicans???
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