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Yeah there is a beach. Cities on rivers and ponds have beaches too.
I'm in South Beach, your entire downtown is office spaces and garages for the most part.
I was in South Beach last week. Ah, Miami... The U.S.' Third World Metropolis.
[BTW-- I'm not making this up. Miami was, and in some cases still is, known by that slogan. It's quite defensible. Once you get off Collins, Miami Beach really is very third world. Shabby, dirty. Much of greater Miami shares these attibutes. That said, it has its charms.]
I was in South Beach last week. Ah, Miami... The U.S.' Third World Metropolis.
[BTW-- I'm not making this up. Miami was, and in some cases still is, known by that slogan. It's quite defensible. Once you get off Collins, Miami Beach really is very third world. Shabby, dirty. Much of greater Miami shares these attibutes. That said, it has its charms.]
Nowhere in Miami Beach does the scenery change except once you get past Washington, it becomes more residential (versus hotels, nightlife, restaurants) until you get to about Alton road.
The rest of Miami west of 95 is very poor, true. But so is 2/3 of Chicago with your south sides and west sides.
Did you factor out the water (Bay of Biscayne) these census tracts include
.
That's why I live here, to be close to the clubs and the stores on Lincoln, and the restaurants on Collins, Ocean, Washington and Espanola. I can live in North Beach, but I have no interest to. I like to having all this stuff within 2-4 blocks from me.
1) These Census Tracts do not include water. Chicago is far denser than Miami Beach no matter how you want to slice and dice it. Also keep in mind that the Loop has over 100 million sf of office space and at least as many hotels as South Beach, not to mention shopping of its own, a theater district and other cultural offerings (world class opera, symphony, ballet, and world class parks).
2) And you are the type of person who would live in South Beach year round in some dingy little apartment to be "close to the clubs and the shopping". Since you so freely tell the world details about your personal life with no problem, can I ask what you do for a living?
Listen, quite while you're ahead. I was a Miami voter. NOT because of DT Miami. NOT because I think Miami Beach is some super dense place (I live in SF, puh lease, and we're comparing to Chicago). Basically, because Miami is a world playground type of place for Latins, Europeans, jet-setters, celebrities, etc. World class beaches, resorts, clubs. That's what makes Miami so international. And really only for the past 2 decades.
Miami is much more popular internationally. Chicago more popular within the U.S., but Miami is definitely the more known and talked about city internationally. How people are saying otherwise is beyond me. Chicago beats Miami in a lot of things, but this isn't one of them.
I don't get it either, though given recent voting in this country pretty much anything goes I guess.
2) And you are the type of person who would live in South Beach year round in some dingy little apartment to be "close to the clubs and the shopping". Since you so freely tell the world details about your personal life with no problem, can I ask what you do for a living?
I live in a house. 2 floors, spacious living room, kitchen, dining room, and upstairs with 2 bedrooms, one of which I converted to a study.
A tourist brand, which Miami indeed has a strong one, is only one element in global renown/recognition.
Chicago is globally known for a hundred other things:
It is the place that invented the skyscraper, house music, improv comedy, nuclear fusion, supply-side economics, social work, the place where the prices of many of the world's agricultural commodities are set. I could go on. You might not know this, but you underestimate the intelligence and curiosity of much of the world's population, who generally know much more about America than Americans know about them.
This is not a thread about which city has a stronger tourist brand, but a thread about which city has more international recognition/renown. Chicago has international recognition/renown in the arts, business, architecture, restaurants, academia, politics, law, theater, television, film and many other fields, actually in most of human endeavor.
Miami has international recognition/renown in tourism, fashion, television and some popular music.
A city gets international recognition/renown from its internationally famous citizens. What would the Miami equivalents of this short sample of famous people affiliated with Chicago be: Al Capone, Enrico Fermi, Milton Friedman, Barak Obama, Jane Addams, Richard Wright, Oprah Winfrey, Frank Lloyd Wright, Mies van der Rohe, Carl Sandburg, John Dewey, Saul Bellow, Leo Strauss, to name a few of the global leaders in their respective fields? These are people who changed the world.
Gloria Estefan? Ricky Martin? Gianni Versace?
Compare Chicago's list of Nobel laureates with Miami's. That will tell you something about international recognition and renown.
Miami is great at what it does, but in terms of international recognition and renown, compared to Chicago, it is a South Florida backwater.
I get what you're trying to say. But real estate is actually one of Miamis' strong suits. The number of celebrities who own homes in Miami is out of this world for a city Miamis' size. Gloria Estefan, and Ricky Martin are the tip of the iceberg. To say Miami is a backwater in terms of renowned compared to Chicago, is a bit of an exaggeration.
I don't think this is really a question. Miami brings to mind a certain lifestyle: exotic cars, white linen, yachts, neon lights, salsa music, etc. Foreigners know Chicago is a major American city but probably not much more beyond that. Chicago has more of an national image than an international one.
Who comes to Chicago and has a hot dog? You're really pushing stereotypes here on both sides of your story.
Just pointing out - Chicago kills Miami on business travel. It's #3 in the country right after NYC and Las Vegas. Chicago has the largest convention center in the USA and dozens of corporate headquarters and regional offices in the loop, which employs about 550,000 people. The city gets business travel by the millions, it's one of its strong points.
Miami certainly gets more international tourists, and Chicago gets around 1.3 million or something, but the city last year saw around 49 million domestic tourists and business travelers. It's weak on international, but huge on domestic.
I've been to dozens of countries over the years and talked to countless people out at bars and pubs. I've never met one who hadn't at least heard of Chicago, although mostly they know the few key items that foreigners seem to know, the large and urban, it's up north, Michael Jordan, tall buildings. Same goes for Miami. Most people have heard of it, and it's beaches, warm weather, water, parties.
People overestimate how much foreigners know about other cities. Usually they know the same 5 things everyone else knows and that's about it. Miami has a stronger brand name and gets more visitors, but it's not really blowing anyone out of the water or anything like NYC does.
Nowhere in Miami Beach does the scenery change except once you get past Washington, it becomes more residential (versus hotels, nightlife, restaurants) until you get to about Alton road.
The rest of Miami west of 95 is very poor, true. But so is 2/3 of Chicago with your south sides and west sides.
Miami's poverty rate is much higher than Chicago's. It's funny because when you're in South Beach you would think everyone has money.
It will depend on where you are in the loop. According to city data: South beach (33139) has a population density of 14,308 people per square mile
60601 - Chicago loop has a density of 21, 414
So probably not...
Not to mention you're talking the financial district, which is mostly made up of places for the 550,000 people who work downtown to be housed each workday or shopping areas or dozens of large hotels with their nearly 40,000 rooms.
If you just cross up where the highrise condo and apartment buildings are more numerous across the river it bumps to around 30,000 per square mile and stays roughly at that rate as you move up north through the city within a few miles of lake Michigan.
Why would someone want to fight that south beach has a higher population density than central Chicago? Not trying to slight south beach at all, but....duh.
Of course you're going to have more people per square mile than south beach
Last edited by Chicago60614; 02-17-2015 at 12:10 PM..
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