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Old 04-16-2015, 04:39 PM
 
111 posts, read 133,508 times
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The U.S. is surely not the cheapest first world country to live in. The main reason are probably the high costs for health care and education. For example in 2013 the U.S. spends 9,255$ per person for health care compared to 3,910€ per person in Germany. And that despite the fact that there are much more old people in Germany who needs more health care. I don't know, but I guess the quality of health care in Germany isn't worse than in the U.S.

Of course it's extremely difficult to compare prices between different countries, but the extremely expensive and inefficient health care industry in the U.S. makes it very unlikely that the U.S. is a cheap country to live in.

In my opinion Germany seems to be significant cheaper than the U.S. Here are some examples:

It's true that the driver licence is much more expensive in Germany and other European countries compared to the U.S. But what about the car insurance? There are much more car accidents in the U.S. and of course that leads to much higher costs for car insurance. The average cost for a fully comprehensive car insurance in Germany in 2013 was 529 € compared to 926$ in Ohio (lowest) and 1,962$ in California (one of the highest).

According to this site Average Cost of Car Insurance (2015) | Average Cost of Insurance | ValuePenguin
the average cost for home owner insurance in the U.S. was 978$. That is also much higher than in Germany, here it is more like 300 €.

We all have heard about those huge compensations in the U.S. that insurance companies have to pay if someone get hurt. Of course that leads to higher costs. Someone have also to pay for all these lawyers. Of course the consumer will pay for them.

Gasoline is cheap in the U.S., yes, it's about 2.5 times more expensive in Germany. But of course people don't need to drive that much, distances are much shorter. And cars consume less gasoline. In 2012 the average German household spends 1,248€ per year for gasoline compared to 2,756$ in the U.S. Of course much further distances (while almost everything is spread out) leads to higher costs. And the amount that Europeans spend for gasoline is not completely waste through the exhaust, no they get the biggest part of that amount back (the taxes are used for amenities and of course some stupid things).

Electricity cost also about 2.5 times more than in the U.S. but the average American also needs about 3 times more electricity than the average German. In 2012 The average German household spends 1,860€ for utilities compared to 3,648$ for the average U.S. household.

Comparing food prices. Americans often think that their food is cheap. I don't know why they think that. Maybe they get teached so at high school? I really don't know, but almost every American think that. Of course compared to Norway and Switzerland, food in the U.S. is cheap. But compared to other European countries? Aldi in the U.S. is seen as the chain with the cheapest food prices in the U.S. In Germany it's the same. With the important difference that all other food retail chains in Germany offer the exactly same price than Aldi for the most common (about 500) products. And the food at Aldi and therefore all other grocery chains in Germany are a lot cheaper than in the U.S. There are some exceptions, for example bananas and avocados and for sure many other items, but overall food is much more expensive in the U.S. than in Germany. Even the food at the upmarket food retailer Edeka is significant cheaper than food at Walmart. For example why is flour so expensive in the U.S.? 1 kg flour in Germany cost 0.32€, every store sells flour for this price. Flour at Walmart? The cheapest price that I could find was 2.46$ for 5 lb, that is a little bit more than 1$ for 1 kg flour. That is unbelievable expensive.

Or why are trash bags in the U.S. so expensive? A 13 gallon trashbag with strips cost at least 0.13$ in the U.S. compared to about 0.05€ with strips or 0.0325€ for those without strips in Germany. A package with 30 trash bags of The most common size (25 liter) cost 0.65€, at every grocery store.

Or look at the K-cups in the U.S. 12 of them at Aldi in the U.S. cost 4.99$ and that is cheap for the U.S. That are 0.42$ per cup. In Germany 16 of them cost 2.79€ at Aldi or 10 of them cost 1.74€ at Lidl. Normally almost every price in a grocery store in Germany ends with a "9". Why the price for the k-cups at Lidl ends with a "4"? Because they have to offer the same price like Aldi to stay competitive: 2.79 / 16 = 1.74 ;-)

Or liquid hand soap? I guess everyone buys it. Prices in Germany: 500ml (dispenser) cost 0.65€ or 0.55€ for 500ml in a refill pack. That are the normal prices you can find at every grocery store or drug store, they are available in countless different flavours. What cost liquid hand soap in the U.S.? The cheapest product what I could found: A 7.5 fl oz store brand liquid hand soap at Dollar General for 1$, that is about 2.30$ for 500ml compared to 0.65€ for the same amount in Germany. And in Germany you get this price at every store, even at a beautiful shiny drug store.

When it comes to food prices or household goods it seems difficult to find products that are cheaper in the U.S. than in Germany.

Here are some products that are cheaper in the U.S. than in Germany. Almost every name brand clothing is cheaper in the U.S. than in Germany. I don't know, but they are maybe 30% cheaper. It's astonishing because no name clothing is very similar priced, despite the higher sale tax in Germany. The question is, why for example NIKE demand so much more for their shoes in Europe than they demand in the U.S.? Germans and of course other Europeans are willing to spend much more for name brand clothing. If Nike in the U.S. would raise their prices to the same level like in Europe, a high percentage of Americans would stop buying Nike shoes and switch to Walmart shoes for example.
All Apple products and most other consumer electronics are cheaper in the U.S. But phone, surf and TV plans are significant cheaper in Germany.

I don't think that there are so much more products that are significant cheaper in the U.S. than in Germany. Of course there are a lot other products that are cheaper, but at the moment no other come in mind. (Aspirin,...)

I really don't understand why so many Americans think that living in the U.S. is basically cheaper than in other developed countries. In my opinion that's very illogical. For example many stores in the U.S. are open 24/7. Of course that leads to much higher costs. There is probably not that much traffic in a Walmart at 3 a.m. At swim parks or similar facilities there are so many employees for supervising the visitors or at schools there are employees for guarding the entrance or supervising the students during lunch. There are so many public employees in the U.S. at least compared to Germany. Many of them doesn't offer any value to the people.

And the manufacturing sector. When I compare factories in the U.S. with factories in Germany, Switzerland, Austria or the Netherlands and some other European countries, the average factory in the U.S. looks from the outside as well as from the inside somewhat outdated. Of course there are also super modern factories in the U.S. but the average midsize production company? Those really doesn't seem very advanced. How should it be possible to produce the goods as efficent as possible if the equipment isn't top-notch? It's also astonishing that for example a plastic manufacturer that needs more production space move from his last factory to a larger factory building that was so far used by a carpet manufacturer which went bancrupty. That is quite common in the U.S. But how should such a factory produce goods as cheap as possible? It's more efficent in the long term to build a factory that is exactly designed to produce a special product. The number of installed industrial robots in the U.S. per employee in the manufacturing industry is higher than in the UK but lower than in almost every other European country.

There are a lot more hints that goods in the U.S. aren't that cheap as many people think. When the incomes in the U.S. are so high and the goods are so cheap why are there so many people in the U.S. that buy the cheapest possible plastic garden chairs? Those chairs looks terrible, why not more people buy much nicer and better quality garden chairs? Why so many people have those cheap chain link fences around their plot? When everything is so cheap in the U.S. why people don't buy nice and beautiful fences?
The prices for toilets at Home Depot in the U.S. starts at 88$ + taxes. The prices for toilets in Germany starts at 18€ (taxes are already included). There is a wide supply of different toilets for less than 88$ in Germany. Or bathtubs, sinks, shower heads and so on. Everything is much more expensive in the U.S. I don't know, but maybe Home Depot is just completely overpriced and other home improvement stores are more reasonable priced?

When everything in the U.S. is so cheap why have so many people in the U.S. such high amounts of consumer debt?

Here is the consumer expenditure survey for the U.S.: http://www.bls.gov/cex/csxann13.pdf
And here is a comparable statistic from Germany: https://www.destatis.de/DE/Publikati...ublicationFile

Disposable income for the average U.S. household (2.5 persons): 51,442$
Disposable income for the average German household (2.0 persons): 37,596€

It's very difficult to compare both statistics, but to say that living in the U.S. is cheaper under consideration of the disposable income? No, it seems to be that the average German household need a smaller amount of their disposable income for necessities but can spend more for amenities and can save more.

I really don't understand why so many Americans think that living in the U.S. is cheap. Probably they just compare prices of products they are used to in the U.S. that are mostly iconic American products, yes those are more expensive in Europe. That would be the same if a German would compare the 700$ for a Miele vacuum cleaner in the U.S. with the 200€ he would pay in Germany for the same appliance. Or the price for a certain product from Ferrero in the U.S. with the price in Germany. I am also absolute sure that almost every American don't realize that price tags in Europe already include the sales tax. It's just normal that they compare their price tags with the price tags in Europe. Everyone would do that. Americans mostly came to Europe as a tourist and often stay in touristic place where almost everything is more expensive. Someone have to live at least several month in a foreign country to get used to the prices and find the best deal. It is also normal that people don't realize that the composition of goods is different in other countries. For example in the U.S. people use much more gasoline and electricity than people in Europe do. The high gasoline and electricity prices in Europe are by far not such a problem than most Americans think. Germans spend about 8.3% of their disposable income for gasoline and utilities compared to 12.4% for the average U.S. household.

Statistics are nice but it's always very difficult to compare statistics from different countries. So I really don't know whether the statistics I mentioned are reliable and whether they are comparable or not. BTW, canned tuna is cheaper in the U.S. than in Germany, but not sure.
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Old 04-16-2015, 08:38 PM
 
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No.


In most of the U.S. you need a car to survive. That alone raises the cost of living tenfold.
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Old 04-16-2015, 08:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Europeanflava View Post
In most of the U.S. you need a car to survive. That alone raises the cost of living tenfold.
Tenfold? People with cars spend ten times more money overall than people without cars?? So if I can live comfortably on $60k in the US, I could have the same life for $6k in Europe without a car. Wow, what a deal!

We have quite a few relatives and friends in Europe (mostly in Germany, some in the Netherlands) and all of them, except a couple of the very elderly, have cars. Most of the couples/families have two cars. Whether they "need" them or not, they have them.
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Old 04-17-2015, 08:05 AM
 
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Assuming first world includes the entire west Europe, and assume we are talking about absolute price instead of considering local wages, then definitely no. Portugal for example, is much cheaper than the US. It costs like $400 a month in rent a one bedroom apartment in central Lisbon.

Also, keep in mind that you have to compare apple to apple. You can't compare a vibrant French town bustling with city life with some sprawling city with high crimes like Atlanta, or some sleepy suburbs such as Phoenix, although the population seems to indicate they are of similar size. Basically you need to compared cities which offer the same level of amenities (education, transport, healthcare, urbanity, culture etc.)

Simple cost of living index may be very misleading, as for a higher price, you might get a much more interesting and fulfilling life, than a boring flat town with nothing but houses and strip malls.
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Old 04-17-2015, 04:33 PM
 
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It is better to compare metros than entire countries. The cost of living and salary vary a great deal in the US as it does in different European cities.

Anyways, I will say no. Taxes are low and goods are cheap, but health care and education are expensive. I think most of Spain, Portugal, southern Italy, inland France etc.. are cheaper and offer higher standards of living then poor regions of the US or poor parts of major US cities.

The abundance of high paying jobs are in Chicago, NYC, San Francisco, Boston, DC, etc.. all relatively expensive places to live compared to some of the cheaper western European cities or small cities in Europe, but these places are also very expensive compared to small town USA. It really just depends, I would compare metros really. California is home to one of the wealthiest cities and most expensive cities, San Francisco, but California the state is actually one of the poorest states in the country and LA the poorest big city in the US when adjusting for cost of living. That being said west LA and some surrounding suburbs are very expensive and full of well off residents....so again it really all depends.
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Old 04-18-2015, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Duluth, Minnesota, USA
7,639 posts, read 18,125,272 times
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The raw price of drugs, doctor's appointments, etc. is very expensive in the U.S. The interesting thing is that most of the poorest part of the Minnesota population (this is very state-dependent, by the way) usually has almost everything covered, due to government programs like Medicaid and MinnesotaCare, and even if not, most hospitals have "Community Care" programs where you get a certain discount or even your whole hospital bill paid (actually, written off from their perspective). I think it's mostly the upper part of the working and lower middle classes who really get hit here with medical bankruptcies and the like, since they make marginally over the limits to these programs yet cannot comfortably reach out of their life savings for $50,000 or $100,000.

Education? Public education up to high school graduation is free. The textbooks are free, the transportation is free, the field trips, I think, cost money, although poor students might be exempt from paying. Free- or reduced-price lunches are a common metric of a school's character.

Now, if you are talking about college or university, that's not free, although hardly any students pay the actual sticker price for their higher education. Usually there are merit-based grants (varying from college to college) which substantially reduce the price as well as need-based grants which again can reduce the cost of even an expensive school tuition to virtually nothing. Again, it's often the upper-lower / lower-middle income students who find themselves really struggling, or the ones who could not find work in the recession.
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Old 04-18-2015, 04:37 PM
 
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I don't know but from an outsiders perspective it looks really cheap. If we shut up shop and sold our house we'd be able to get a mansion say 10,000 square feet and we aren't even rich.

I saw that the clothes are dirt cheap aswell, like I will be buying Gucci clothes this summer and tbh I couldn't afford them here as they are a little too high. The only expensive things are the wine etc. Also the cars are dirt cheap, like crappy new Ford Focuses are like £20,000 here and in the USA you can buy a BMW for that price.
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Old 04-18-2015, 04:38 PM
 
138 posts, read 130,633 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
The US might be cheap to live in as in everyday life, but when adding insurances, college funds, retirement funds... everything, the differences become much much smaller.

Americans who claim Western Europe is hideously expensive, they land at London, Paris or Oslo, go to the worst tourist crap restaurants, hotels and drive in taxis, which have 200-300% higher prices than normal just because tourists have loose money. This is not the reality the people living in those cities experience.
It is expensive. ALOT more expensive.
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Old 04-18-2015, 04:40 PM
 
138 posts, read 130,633 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Europeanflava View Post
No.


In most of the U.S. you need a car to survive. That alone raises the cost of living tenfold.
No just no. I put £60 into my car a month and it barely lasts, in America I could double that and only put in £20.
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Old 04-18-2015, 04:50 PM
 
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The correct answer is yes if you're rich or upper middle class, no if you're poor or lower/regular middle class. The poor in America are punished for their plight while in Europe they are given an opportunity to enter the middle class.
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