Why don't N. American cities & towns try to emulate W. European cities & towns more? (student loan, houses)
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London has overtaken its peak 1939 population, although NOLA insists otherwise for whatever reason. London is currently booming, although NOLA insists that it's in decline (lol). Meh.
My simple line of argument in this thread is that vibrancy is a marriage of pedestrianism, density and amenity provision. Public transportation encourages pedestrianism and is an enabler of densification, both of which contribute to the vibrancy of a city. Hence, improving public transportation would be a positive step with respect to increasing a city's vibrancy, especially for auto-dependent cities like Atlanta.
It's no coincidence that the great cities around the world are seeking to improve PT provision, thereby decreasing dependence on the car. It's no coincidence that, in tandem, the pedestrian experience in urban centres is constantly being improved, which in turn improves its vibrancy.
It would help if you don't misrepresent what other people say.
The primary claim was that London was prosperous because of town squares and trains, and Atlanta wasn't prosperous because of highways and sprawl. Secondary claims included allegations that London was faster growing now than during the Victorian era, that Atlanta was only adding 4,000 people a decade, and that anyone desiring a suburban home was automatically selfish.
So, no, I didn't misrepresent anything. The whole premise of this thread is complete nonsense, because the implication is that sprawl harms growth, yet the fastest growing cities in the developed world are almost all sprawling, and the slowest growing cities in the developed world are some of the least sprawly.
If this thread's claims made even a hint of sense, than Houston would be abandoned instead of a giant boomtown, and Naples would be richer than NYC or London instead of an economic disaster. You can't get sprawlier than Houston, and you can't get denser than Naples, at least not in the Western context.
I guess another argument people make is that a more pedestrian-friendly city will also be more visibly buzzing, with more people on the streets, creating the impression of a thriving city. Berlin, for example - it's quite poor, but when you go there, you don't get that impression.
Nothing to do with economics mind you, but it's still an argument I've heard.
The primary claim was that London was prosperous because of town squares and trains, and Atlanta wasn't prosperous because of highways and sprawl. Secondary claims included allegations that London was faster growing now than during the Victorian era, that Atlanta was only adding 4,000 people a decade, and that anyone desiring a suburban home was automatically selfish.
So, no, I didn't misrepresent anything. The whole premise of this thread is complete nonsense, because the implication is that sprawl harms growth, yet the fastest growing cities in the developed world are almost all sprawling, and the slowest growing cities in the developed world are some of the least sprawly.
If this thread's claims made even a hint of sense, than Houston would be abandoned instead of a giant boomtown, and Naples would be richer than NYC or London instead of an economic disaster. You can't get sprawlier than Houston, and you can't get denser than Naples, at least not in the Western context.
Let's take just one example (your first example) here to see how I read SE9's claims and to note how we differ:
I read: "London's public transport was an important factor in making it prosperous."
You read: "London is prosperous because of public transport." (Making it seem that transport was the only factor of note that led to London's prosperity).
You're not doing it deliberately, but you seem to have trouble at times using context to distinguish between literal meaning and intended meaning.
The primary claim was that London was prosperous because of town squares and trains, and Atlanta wasn't prosperous because of highways and sprawl. Secondary claims included allegations that London was faster growing now than during the Victorian era, that Atlanta was only adding 4,000 people a decade, and that anyone desiring a suburban home was automatically selfish.
So, no, I didn't misrepresent anything. The whole premise of this thread is complete nonsense, because the implication is that sprawl harms growth, yet the fastest growing cities in the developed world are almost all sprawling, and the slowest growing cities in the developed world are some of the least sprawly.
If this thread's claims made even a hint of sense, than Houston would be abandoned instead of a giant boomtown, and Naples would be richer than NYC or London instead of an economic disaster. You can't get sprawlier than Houston, and you can't get denser than Naples, at least not in the Western context.
This is happening on a pretty small scale, yes.... but just because you are making somewhere more pedestrian friendly doesn't mean you are making it "European"
Europe is not special in that area, there are walkable places all over the world.... not just Europe.
American suburbs are still booming and they stick to the same model they have been using, spread out single family homes... because that is what people like here. they don't want to live in a "European like city" which is why people aren't building them on a big scale (as in as much as what they are doing in the suburbs)
As for U.S. cities, I don't believe that we wil see another City Beautiful movement. Conceivably, some cities might be retrofitted to create small slivers or pockets of urbanity.
Travelling by car is not as efficient as public transport modes (bus, cycle hire, light rail, heavy rail etc).
Cars take up more room... yes. but they go more places, and for the most part they get you their faster than a bus, street car, light rail and bicycle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SE9
As has been stated earlier, public transport is an enabler of densification and encourages pedestrianism. Vibrancy. It allows far more people to move around a city in a more efficient manner:
Cool, so put them in the cities and leave the suburbs alone.
[quote=iNviNciBL3;39295133]Cars take up more room... yes. but they go more places, and for the most part they get you their faster than a bus, street car, light rail and bicycle.
A bike or motorcycle can take you just as far as a car. People just want full comfort in their ride and so its understandable why they prefer cars.
I think the emerging trend in urbanism in the western world is about having your cake and eating it too.
In Europe they have the vibrant central city thing down pat but a lot of people are wanting the single-family home lifestyle or at least a lifestyle that's not a cramped apartment in a building. Very few cities are hollowing out at the centre but if you look at where most of the growth is taking place it's on the outskirts in more auto-dependent styles (if not quite as auto-dependent as in the US).
And in the US people are wanting more and more to have European-style walkable areas in their cities. In some cases this comes with densification projects and condo developments, but equally strong is the trend of trying to find a way to make single-family housing (or at least non-apartment housing with yards) coexist with a more dense, vibrant urban form.
Cars take up more room... yes. but they go more places, and for the most part they get you their faster than a bus, street car, light rail and bicycle.
Cool, so put them in the cities and leave the suburbs alone.
A fundamental difference in mentality. People in European suburbs ask/campaign/beg for better transport links. Yourself and some others here based permanently in the Unites States don't want it in their back yard.
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