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Old 04-30-2015, 02:24 PM
 
2,339 posts, read 2,930,081 times
Reputation: 2349

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
I've been visiting The Netherlands since 1987 and have been at least 11 times, sometimes staying as long as a month.
I would take the metro and pass through places like Bijlmermeer. You can't tell me Amsterdam doesn't have some ugly suburbs, as well as nice ones of course.
The Bijlmermeer is actually Amsterdam's ghetto, you really shouldn't go there, especially as a foreigner. It would be comparable to the section 8 housing projects in the US although not quite as dangerous. You really picked what used to be the worst area in the Netherlands for decades although it has been cleaned up in recent years and I believe The Hague has the worst ghettos now. I don't live anywhere near that misery and I suggest you shouldn't go there. Rotterdam is pretty bad too.
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Old 04-30-2015, 02:30 PM
 
Location: M I N N E S O T A
14,773 posts, read 21,490,401 times
Reputation: 9263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
I've seen urban decay around Europe, so don't pretend it doesn't exist. Car culture...hmmm traffic is horrendous in a lot of European city centres, Amsterdam comes to mind. London had to restrict the amount of cars coming into the centre.
Lifeless suburbs? Some for sure, however like in Europe there are good suburbs and bad suburbs. Transit OVERALL is better in most parts of Europe, but it isn't really any better than what I have here in Vancouver. Canadian cities do fairly well on the transit level.

This one near Paris is lifeless looking and bland.

http://goo.gl/YiJT4J

Amsterdam ( and I LOVE Amsterdam ) is surrounded by suburbs that look like this

http://goo.gl/6o1Jqs


So it works both ways. I should add, that Vancouver is very liveable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drro View Post
The Bijlmermeer is actually Amsterdam's ghetto, you really shouldn't go there, especially as a foreigner. It would be comparable to the section 8 housing projects in the US although not quite as dangerous. You really picked what used to be the worst area in the Netherlands for decades although it has been cleaned up in recent years and I believe The Hague has the worst ghettos now. I don't live anywhere near that misery and I suggest you shouldn't go there. Rotterdam is pretty bad too.
Is this place dangerous?
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Old 04-30-2015, 02:53 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
18,504 posts, read 15,543,399 times
Reputation: 11937
Quote:
Originally Posted by drro View Post
The Bijlmermeer is actually Amsterdam's ghetto, you really shouldn't go there, especially as a foreigner. It would be comparable to the section 8 housing projects in the US although not quite as dangerous. You really picked what used to be the worst area in the Netherlands for decades although it has been cleaned up in recent years and I believe The Hague has the worst ghettos now. I don't live anywhere near that misery and I suggest you shouldn't go there. Rotterdam is pretty bad too.
Well, we are getting somewhere. You mentioning ghettos and blight in a European city !!
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Old 04-30-2015, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
18,504 posts, read 15,543,399 times
Reputation: 11937
Quote:
Originally Posted by iNviNciBL3 View Post
Is this place dangerous?
I didn't feel unsafe, but then perhaps being naive helped, like that time I walked through the bad part of Oakland at 2:30 am.
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Old 04-30-2015, 03:05 PM
 
2,339 posts, read 2,930,081 times
Reputation: 2349
Quote:
Originally Posted by iNviNciBL3 View Post
Is this place dangerous?
No, that's Amstelveen which is not dangerous. There are regular people living in those blocks although they do not exactly look nice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
Well, we are getting somewhere. You mentioning ghettos and blight in a European city !!
Well, this is what we call ghetto over here, Amsterdam South-East, mostly because of increased crime rates. Now compare that to American ghettos. You are not in immediate danger there but you are increasing the odds of becoming a victim of crime.
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Old 04-30-2015, 03:08 PM
 
62 posts, read 122,299 times
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Vancouver is a great North America city. It is a nice example of a medium sized metro in N. America that was actually planned well and has many walkable areas in the city, however the metro overall is also very sprawly compared to most similar sized European cities. That being said, I wish more of the newer N. American cities could be planned and developed as well as Vancouver has been. The Vancouver metro is generally less walkable overall and certainly less public transportation friendly than most similarly sized European metros.

I viewed the random streetviews you posted. Both locations in the street view are a short walk to either a subway(Paris) or tram (Amsterdam) connecting them to the central areas and more. Also I noticed bike lanes, walkable streets, medium density housing, and nice parks. I would guess that these suburbs are more walkable than 90% of the Vancouver metro. What would a comparable suburb in Vancouver be to Saint Denis (the streetview you provided)? Saint Denis has a density of 8600 people per square kilometer and is served by 3 different rapid transit trains lines(Metro and RERs).

Also, there is plenty of urban decay in W. European cities as well as a variety of other problems. However, the urban decay and abandonment found in some in the US blows Europe out of the water. I'm not just talking about Detroit, but the run down portions of Los Angeles, New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, etc...
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Old 04-30-2015, 03:23 PM
 
62 posts, read 122,299 times
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@ Mag3.14 Could you post a street view of somewhere in your community. I am going to guess that your suburb is more walkable and offers better public transpo than the vast majority of North American suburbs. Also I don't think anyone on here has posted anything negative about suburbs, I have criticized the car centric suburbs that offer zero walkability, public transportation, nearby town center etc..

Also, someone mentioned that Canada does a better job of planning their cities than the US. It definitely seems like Vancouver and Toronto are making strides to improve their cities, while the US is lagging. I also don't think that Canada has the same levels of extreme inequality as the US. The US has large impoverished blighted areas in every city because their is a large impoverished population in the US.
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Old 04-30-2015, 03:59 PM
 
Location: Eastwood, Orlando FL
1,260 posts, read 1,687,950 times
Reputation: 1421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hightower72 View Post
So why would you rather choose St Louis or Nola over NYC? I'm presuming COL isn't the only factor.

I'd rather live in either one. I'm not a big fan of NYC.. For big american cities, I much prefer Chicago. I would live in St Louis or Atlanta. Yes, they both have bad areas, as do most American cities

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_curious_urbanist View Post
New York and Philadelphia are as close to European cities as you can get. Outside of those 2 the U.S. is auto-dependent and most people just don't care no matter how hard I try to convince them that biking, walking, or transit is better than taking the 4-wheels everywhere.
I'd add Boston too this

Quote:
Originally Posted by censusdata View Post
The better question: why did N American towns go away from the pre WW2 American model? You had scenic, walkable core areas and classy housing that was compact yet offered more breathing room than European styles.



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There is something that no one is mentioning here. White Flight. I'm sorry to say it, but it was a real phenomenon.

European cites are old and established. The USA is a nation of immigrants and often those poor immigrants settled in inner cities. As such rightly or wrongly, US cities are often seen is where the poor live. Wealthy immigrants wanted land. Land was the big draw fr people coming to America. That still holds up. It is ingrained in American society. Poor immigrant's goals were to get OUT of the city and have a little piece of land of their own.
Ironic with how expensive many have grown. And yes, it's also true that many people in the USA look at public transport as something that poor and/or lower classes take.
I fell asleep on a Greyhound bus in my 20's and woke up to a guy putting his hand up my shirt.
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Old 04-30-2015, 04:13 PM
 
Location: The Silver State (from the UK)
4,664 posts, read 8,240,727 times
Reputation: 2862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorge Bueno View Post
@ Mag3.14 Could you post a street view of somewhere in your community. I am going to guess that your suburb is more walkable and offers better public transpo than the vast majority of North American suburbs. Also I don't think anyone on here has posted anything negative about suburbs, I have criticized the car centric suburbs that offer zero walkability, public transportation, nearby town center etc..

Also, someone mentioned that Canada does a better job of planning their cities than the US. It definitely seems like Vancouver and Toronto are making strides to improve their cities, while the US is lagging. I also don't think that Canada has the same levels of extreme inequality as the US. The US has large impoverished blighted areas in every city because their is a large impoverished population in the US.


Here is something close..

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1793...61740!2e1!3e10

Take a walk around! Actually, public transport is terrible here, but it is walkable and there are a ton of parks, restaurants, shops etc all over. It is a lot "greener" and more aesthetically pleasing than one may associate with the desert..
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Old 04-30-2015, 09:22 PM
 
Location: In the heights
37,127 posts, read 39,357,090 times
Reputation: 21212
A lot of US cities did develop like European cities that grew and expanded around the same time US cities. The big divergence was basically during the mid 20th century.
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