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View Poll Results: Which has better natural scenery, California or Italy?
California 147 54.44%
Italy 123 45.56%
Voters: 270. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-01-2017, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Near Luxembourg
1,891 posts, read 1,684,673 times
Reputation: 1392

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iaskwhy View Post
SEDAC comes from NASA and Columbia University, you are saying their data is wrong?

You cannot compare apples and oranges, you need climate maps from the same source, in the same scale. Otherwise, it's meaningless. Please link your sources.

Here is another map where California has more climates than France, Italy and Spain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Köppe...h_authors).svg
This one is much more accurate! Because the french Massif Central as "oceanic" is seriously retarded...Take the Aubrac, 2500km² with an average height of 1200m...winter aren't oceanic there, for sure..and more in general on these "high" plateau. On streetview, they are empty or with fir trees. Cold continental like. I guess same applies for California and Italy (and Spain)

Now, it's clear that California has more climate for sure.

Last edited by Pokitobounto; 09-01-2017 at 12:09 PM..
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Old 09-01-2017, 05:50 PM
 
Location: Manassas, VA
13 posts, read 9,431 times
Reputation: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iaskwhy View Post
SEDAC comes from NASA and Columbia University, you are saying their data is wrong?

You cannot compare apples and oranges, you need climate maps from the same source, in the same scale. Otherwise, it's meaningless. Please link your sources.

Here is another map where California has more climates than France, Italy and Spain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Köppe...h_authors).svg
I'm not saying their data is wrong, i'm saying that their data is maded in a very large scale for locations outside of the US, those maps are clearly wrong, as they don't include most climates. That map which you're referencing right now is maded by a Wiki user. I've shown you a map maded by AEMET which is the official meteorology agency of Spain, almost as valuable as NOAA and awarded by the NOAA as one of the best international met agencies. They also make data for Portugal and Andorra, as well for the whole Macaronesia archipielago ..... can't superimpose that to a user made Wikipedia map in large scale.

If you use the Köppen climate guide as a reference, then why you don't apply it good? Indeed, those maps which I shown are maded with millimeters of accuracy as they apply for the single region/country, in this case Spain, Italy and France. There isn't literally a single source in the Internet more valuable or trustworthy for Spain as AEMET is. I mean lol, it's their own met agency, who will know it better than they do?

They just apply the "official" Köppen climate measurements and achieve the climates. Yes, indeed, Spain had 2 desertic climates: cold and hot desert. 2 semi-arid climates: cold and hot semi-arid. 2 Mediterranean climates: warm-summer and hot-summer. 2 humid climates: Oceanic and Humid Subtropical. 4 continental climates, of whom, 2 are dry-summer continental (Dsb and Dsc) while 2 are humid-summer continental (Dfb and Dfc). And also the ET tundra climate in few areas of the Pyrenees.

I can count 13, all correctly referenced by their own Met agency, AEMET, as shown you in the source from before which is nothing than extracted from this official climatic guide of Spain, maded by AEMET in collaboration with IPMA and the NOAA. Read from the page 15 to the page 18, it's perfectly explained in English where you can find each one of those 13 different climates and in the page 18 you can see the map: http://www.aemet.es/documentos/es/co...gico/Atlas.pdf Now that I shown you this, same applies for France and Italy, as you can see in the maps which I shown you; which are maded by a Wiki user but applying good the Köppen climate classification (although not official as this one from Spain is). Why would I waste my time writing all of this if this wasn't true? But it is, and i'm trying to show it to you.

Spain has 13 climates, Italy 12, France 11 and California 10. Remvong the small zones; Spain has 11, Italy 9, California 8 and France 7. But if we count each single area of the whole territory the climate amount is exactly what I said before. Spain 13, Italy 12, France 11 and California 10. It is how it is... There isn't anyone with a bigger authority for Spain than their own met agency, how can someone deny that?


Sorry for deviating this thread so much. Spain and France are not even in the topic of this thread. But I just want to show how wrong is the statement that "California has more climates than any other European country" or that Italy has just 5 climates? No way, it has more than double! This thread also takes into consideration the landscapes & natural scenery, and of course Italy smacks California in those.

California hasn't got a single place with a humid climate. Neither humid subtropical, neither humid continental. Italy does, a lot, in the upper north of the country. Those landscapes add so much value... isn't it?
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Old 09-02-2017, 02:32 AM
 
1,770 posts, read 1,662,332 times
Reputation: 1735
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokitobounto View Post
This one is much more accurate! Because the french Massif Central as "oceanic" is seriously retarded...Take the Aubrac, 2500km² with an average height of 1200m...winter aren't oceanic there, for sure..and more in general on these "high" plateau. On streetview, they are empty or with fir trees. Cold continental like. I guess same applies for California and Italy (and Spain)

Now, it's clear that California has more climate for sure.
Please do us all a favor then and post more accurate maps from a same source.
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Old 09-02-2017, 02:44 AM
 
1,770 posts, read 1,662,332 times
Reputation: 1735
Quote:
Originally Posted by barikello View Post
I'm not saying their data is wrong, i'm saying that their data is maded in a very large scale for locations outside of the US, those maps are clearly wrong, as they don't include most climates. That map which you're referencing right now is maded by a Wiki user. I've shown you a map maded by AEMET which is the official meteorology agency of Spain, almost as valuable as NOAA and awarded by the NOAA as one of the best international met agencies. They also make data for Portugal and Andorra, as well for the whole Macaronesia archipielago ..... can't superimpose that to a user made Wikipedia map in large scale.

If you use the Köppen climate guide as a reference, then why you don't apply it good? Indeed, those maps which I shown are maded with millimeters of accuracy as they apply for the single region/country, in this case Spain, Italy and France. There isn't literally a single source in the Internet more valuable or trustworthy for Spain as AEMET is. I mean lol, it's their own met agency, who will know it better than they do?

They just apply the "official" Köppen climate measurements and achieve the climates. Yes, indeed, Spain had 2 desertic climates: cold and hot desert. 2 semi-arid climates: cold and hot semi-arid. 2 Mediterranean climates: warm-summer and hot-summer. 2 humid climates: Oceanic and Humid Subtropical. 4 continental climates, of whom, 2 are dry-summer continental (Dsb and Dsc) while 2 are humid-summer continental (Dfb and Dfc). And also the ET tundra climate in few areas of the Pyrenees.

I can count 13, all correctly referenced by their own Met agency, AEMET, as shown you in the source from before which is nothing than extracted from this official climatic guide of Spain, maded by AEMET in collaboration with IPMA and the NOAA. Read from the page 15 to the page 18, it's perfectly explained in English where you can find each one of those 13 different climates and in the page 18 you can see the map: http://www.aemet.es/documentos/es/co...gico/Atlas.pdf Now that I shown you this, same applies for France and Italy, as you can see in the maps which I shown you; which are maded by a Wiki user but applying good the Köppen climate classification (although not official as this one from Spain is). Why would I waste my time writing all of this if this wasn't true? But it is, and i'm trying to show it to you.

Spain has 13 climates, Italy 12, France 11 and California 10. Remvong the small zones; Spain has 11, Italy 9, California 8 and France 7. But if we count each single area of the whole territory the climate amount is exactly what I said before. Spain 13, Italy 12, France 11 and California 10. It is how it is... There isn't anyone with a bigger authority for Spain than their own met agency, how can someone deny that?


Sorry for deviating this thread so much. Spain and France are not even in the topic of this thread. But I just want to show how wrong is the statement that "California has more climates than any other European country" or that Italy has just 5 climates? No way, it has more than double! This thread also takes into consideration the landscapes & natural scenery, and of course Italy smacks California in those.

California hasn't got a single place with a humid climate. Neither humid subtropical, neither humid continental. Italy does, a lot, in the upper north of the country. Those landscapes add so much value... isn't it?

You have to get maps from the same sources otherwise it's meaningless. You can't pick one random climate map from Spain and another from California and expect an accurate comparison. If the data from Spain is down to the sq meter and the data from California is down to the sq km (extreme example to illustrate point) the clearly that isn't a fair or accurate comparison.

What is even the standard for how large of a surveyed area is required for a climate? Does a small glacier count as an ET climate?

I am happy to look at whatever data you have but there has to be some standardization otherwise it's pointless.

I'm still curious to see sources backing your statements that France, Italy and Spain have more biomes than California.

Last edited by Iaskwhy; 09-02-2017 at 03:48 AM..
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Old 09-02-2017, 04:09 AM
 
1,770 posts, read 1,662,332 times
Reputation: 1735
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokitobounto View Post
This one is much more accurate! Because the french Massif Central as "oceanic" is seriously retarded...Take the Aubrac, 2500km² with an average height of 1200m...winter aren't oceanic there, for sure..and more in general on these "high" plateau. On streetview, they are empty or with fir trees. Cold continental like. I guess same applies for California and Italy (and Spain)

Now, it's clear that California has more climate for sure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iaskwhy View Post
Please do us all a favor then and post more accurate maps from a same source.
My apologies I thought I read sarcasm and responded rudely, but upon reading what you wrote again, I believe I was mistaken. I'm not sure I am seeing the Alps listed as oceanic climate though, in the image I posted they are shown under D and E classifications.

Last edited by Iaskwhy; 09-02-2017 at 04:18 AM..
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Old 09-02-2017, 05:42 AM
 
Location: Near Luxembourg
1,891 posts, read 1,684,673 times
Reputation: 1392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iaskwhy View Post
My apologies I thought I read sarcasm and responded rudely, but upon reading what you wrote again, I believe I was mistaken. I'm not sure I am seeing the Alps listed as oceanic climate though, in the image I posted they are shown under D and E classifications.
Oh no I was serious, the second map you showed is better. I guess it's because the threshold oceanic/continental isn't -3 degrees but 0. And yes imperfections persist but it's normal, there are micro climates everywhere.

California has a higher diversity of climates than Italy.
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Old 09-02-2017, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Bologna, Italy
7,501 posts, read 6,289,161 times
Reputation: 3761
California certainly has a higher climate diversity because it is bigger and goes from the ocean to desertic climates with mediterranean areas in between. Also, Csb in Europe is almost unheard of.

That said continental climates in France / Italy do exist, as soon as you reach 500 m asl (and sometimes lower). France has at least Cfb / Cfa / Csa / Dfb and probably some Dfc as well. Italy has all of these and probably some Dfa as well in some isolated spots.
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Old 09-02-2017, 07:21 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,588 posts, read 27,384,877 times
Reputation: 9059
Quote:
Originally Posted by forgotten username View Post
California certainly has a higher climate diversity because it is bigger and goes from the ocean to desertic climates with mediterranean areas in between. Also, Csb in Europe is almost unheard of.

That said continental climates in France / Italy do exist, as soon as you reach 500 m asl (and sometimes lower). France has at least Cfb / Cfa / Csa / Dfb and probably some Dfc as well. Italy has all of these and probably some Dfa as well in some isolated spots.
The fact that California has colder water along it's coast creates more contrast in climate types.
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Old 09-03-2017, 03:16 AM
 
Location: Bologna, Italy
7,501 posts, read 6,289,161 times
Reputation: 3761
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentoo View Post
The fact that California has colder water along it's coast creates more contrast in climate types.
Well yeah, the Csb type.

Not sure it's a big loss here though. I'd rather have a warmer summer type Cfb / Cfa hybrid like Bordeaux over coastal locations near San Francisco which are a year-long April and with permanent cold water.
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Old 09-03-2017, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Trieste
957 posts, read 1,132,973 times
Reputation: 793
A feature I forgot were the tabular mouintains, we have quite a few

Pietra di Bismantova









Sasso Simone + Sasso Simoncello

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