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View Poll Results: Which is more vibrant between them?
NYC 65 48.51%
London 69 51.49%
Voters: 134. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-02-2015, 09:52 AM
 
367 posts, read 409,189 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arxis28 View Post
Manhattan’s daytime population is approximately 3.94 million; the census defined daytime population omits almost one-fourth of the total, or nearly 800,000 people.
https://wagner.nyu.edu/files/rudince..._manhattan.pdf

Regardless, comparing the geographic island of Manhattan to an area defined as Central London is flawed since core New York does not equal Manhattan. Half the island is no more dense and often even less dense than many surrounding neighborhoods in the other boroughs. The bulk of that 4 million figure is spread throughout a handful of neighborhoods throughout the lower half of the island.
The PDF specifies that it includes Manhattan's tourist visitors, whereas the census data doesn't.

It brings it into line with Central London's total average daytime population which is also almost 4 million.
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Old 07-02-2015, 10:08 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarineBlue View Post
Central London's daytime population is 3.26 million (almost 4 million with tourists included).
Manhattan's daytime population is 3.1 million.

Both being vaguely similar in geographic size, the difference is in the distribution, as POC mentioned. London has more open spaces, squares, plazas, pedestrianized zones, for people to spread out, so it feels less crowded. But the overall vibrancy feels similar.
Actually there are approx 3.94 million people in Manhattan during weekday, including the visitors.
NYU Rudin Center Blog

I don't know how you get 4 million in Central London, to get this number you should use an area much larger than Central London.

If I take the City of London + Westminster + Camden + Islington + Hackney + Kensington and Chelsea + Southwark + Lambeth.
This area covers 147.9 km² (57.09 sq mi), 2.5 times the size of Manhattan with a daytime population of 3.14 million people (3.78 million people including visitors).

You should really explain us how you could find nearly 4 million people in an area vaguely similar in geographic size?
The only way to find similar number in Manhattan and London is to take a much larger area for London.

Last edited by Minato ku; 07-02-2015 at 10:18 AM..
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Old 07-02-2015, 10:22 AM
 
10,275 posts, read 10,327,830 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarineBlue View Post
It brings it into line with Central London's total average daytime population which is also almost 4 million.
Your definition of Central London is almost 3x the size of Manhattan.

So obviously if there are roughly similar numbers of daytime population, then NYC is far more vibrant because you are comparing wildly dissimilar areas in terms of size. You are saying that 20 square miles of NYC has the same population as 60 square miles of London.

And it's even worse than that, because Upper Manhattan has few visitors and is relatively quiet, while adjacent areas of Brooklyn have many visitors and are extremely busy. If you substituted Brooklyn for Upper Manhattan to get 20 miles of "core NYC" then the NYC numbers would be even higher.

Anyone who has been to both cities, and is being honest, would agree than NYC is significantly more vibrant overall.
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Old 07-02-2015, 11:04 AM
 
367 posts, read 409,189 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101 View Post
Your definition of Central London is almost 3x the size of Manhattan.

So obviously if there are roughly similar numbers of daytime population, then NYC is far more vibrant because you are comparing wildly dissimilar areas in terms of size. You are saying that 20 square miles of NYC has the same population as 60 square miles of London.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minato ku View Post
Actually there are approx 3.94 million people in Manhattan during weekday, including the visitors.
NYU Rudin Center Blog

I don't know how you get 4 million in Central London, to get this number you should use an area much larger than Central London.

If I take the City of London + Westminster + Camden + Islington + Hackney + Kensington and Chelsea + Southwark + Lambeth.
This area covers 147.9 km² (57.09 sq mi), 2.5 times the size of Manhattan with a daytime population of 3.14 million people (3.78 million people including visitors).

You should really explain us how you could find nearly 4 million people in an area vaguely similar in geographic size?
The only way to find similar number in Manhattan and London is to take a much larger area for London.
I'm glad you brought this up, because I was going to cover it in the other thread anyway.

Daytime population in the large boroughs such as Camden, Southwark and Lambeth is aggregated centrally, and is why the borders of the map I drew of Central London (which is definitely not 3 times the size of Manhattan) bisects these boroughs.

There are a number of ways of showing this, but this is the most elegant:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQV3UHsZ_u4
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Old 07-02-2015, 11:14 AM
 
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What is that spike of activity in the East End (?), just east of central London?
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Old 07-02-2015, 11:16 AM
 
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The daytime population does not just include office jobs and visitors but people working in shops (there are plenty of retails outside central London), people working in public services, the not working population, the children....
This represents a lot more people than you imagine, the rest of the city is not empty during the day.

Note that many of these people do not commute by rail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Not the Maginot Line View Post
What is that spike of activity in the East End (?), just east of central London?
The business district of Canary Wharf.
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Old 07-02-2015, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Blighty
531 posts, read 594,619 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minato ku View Post
The daytime population does not just include office jobs but people working in shops (there are plenty of retails outside central London), people working in public services, the not working population, the children....
This represents a lot more people than you imagine, the rest of the city is not empty during the day.

Note that most of these people do not commute by rail.


The business district of Canary Wharf.
Oyster is actually bus, rail, tube, DLR etc, not just rail.

Besides what you say, anyone who lives in London knows that the great mass of daytime density in Camden and Southwark/Lambeth is around the town centre and close to the riverside. It's so overwhelmingly evident it's really not worth disputing.
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Old 07-02-2015, 11:28 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noggin of Rum View Post
Oyster is actually bus, rail, tube, DLR etc, not just rail.

Besides what you say, anyone who lives in London knows that the great mass of daytime density in Camden and Southwark/Lambeth is around the town centre and close to the riverside. It's so overwhelmingly evident it's really not worth disputing.
True. Camden lock is stupidly busy. You literally can't move.

This is where all the attractive women and models seem to hang out on Fridays.
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Old 07-02-2015, 11:36 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noggin of Rum View Post
Oyster is actually bus, rail, tube, DLR etc, not just rail.
I'm presuming buses are not included at all in this animation given that you don't "touch out" by Oyster on buses.

Also imagine how these transit patterns will change once 24 hour Tube services start in 2-3 months' time.
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Old 07-02-2015, 11:37 AM
 
1,327 posts, read 2,604,630 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noggin of Rum View Post
Oyster is actually bus, rail, tube, DLR etc, not just rail.

Besides what you say, anyone who lives in London knows that the great mass of daytime density in Camden and Southwark/Lambeth is around the town centre and close to the riverside. It's so overwhelmingly evident it's really not worth disputing.
Look better the youtube video, the map anymation of Oyster is only about the tube and rail stations. It is clearly written.

I did not say that the peak of daytime density in Camden and Southwark/Lambeth was not Central, I said that there were plenty of people outside the centre in those areas during the daytime.
The rest of Camden and Southwark/Lambeth... are not empty during the day.
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