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Old 09-02-2015, 07:27 PM
 
24,467 posts, read 19,609,782 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vaughanwilliams View Post
One of the natures of modern Capitalism is to hire cheap...as cheap as possible. Everyone knows that. Pointing it out doesn't make one a Stormfront fan.
Again it's all questionable.
Depends on the driving force, the idea behind the society.
If the main idea behind the society is a money making machine, as it is in the US, ( the more your nation makes, the more it's likely to take over the world and dictate the world its will,) then yes, your whole business setup will be striving for quantity, cheapest cost of labor, paid health care and the rest.
But if the main idea behind the society is the well-being of a nation ( and European countries originally ARE monogamous nations,) then the driving force behind the society will be serving the interests of the nations first of all, not the interests of the money-making machine. Then quality of production will prevail over quantity; more people will be kept on welfare, giving possibility to those really willing to work for higher pay to work, the healthcare coverage will be organized in subsidized manner, ( so will be higher education) and so on.
So as you can see - it all depends.

Last edited by erasure; 09-02-2015 at 07:50 PM..
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Old 09-02-2015, 07:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101 View Post
Refugees aren't "job creaters". That's absurd. They aren't coming to Germany to work; they're coming for the generous benefits due to lingering national guilt.
By "job creators" poster(s) here mean people with money that create enterprises ( where cheap labor is hired,) not the "refugees." ( We are speaking in American terms yet again of course.)
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Old 09-02-2015, 07:39 PM
 
Location: Chemnitz, Germany
4,592 posts, read 9,828,856 times
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At least one of the former US military posts in Germany (which used to number in the hundreds) has been converted to a refugee reception and processing center. Former military posts make good temporary housing centers with their big capacity barracks housing, former dining halls and large kitchens and large common area buildings. So now Patton Barracks is a refugee processing center.

Germany Offers Asylum-seekers Safety at Former US Army Post | Military.com

My old army post in Germany in the 1970s at Wildflecken Kaserne was a huge displaced persons camp for post WW2 refugees. In the late 1940s it housed tens of thousands of refugees, mostly from Poland and other parts of Eastern Europe. I know of at least a few other large former US military posts in Germany that would probably do a good job at housing a lot of people until somebody, somehow figures out where these people can go and what they can do. What a giant mess. The US started up the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, which later contributed to some of the instability in Syria, Libya and other places, and I haven't see the US do much to help solve the problem.
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Old 09-02-2015, 07:39 PM
 
554 posts, read 820,473 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
Then it's likely will get worse. To stay competitive, companies always look for ways to cut cost. And labor cost is at the top of the list. They will hire workers who are willing to work for less money. I think the new immigrants will work for less money.
Most European countries have minimum wages so this won't happen. Beside, can those immigrants work in finance, engineering, healthcare and so on ?
Companies don't always look to cut costs, they look for higher benefit/cost ratio. It will still better to pay a high salary to someone doing good job and working 40h than hiring someone doing a poor job for less money and more hours. Most illegal immigrants won't find jobs simply because they don't have any skill needed.
Moreover a European company just looking for cost cut will outsource some of its business to a foreign country like all those "French" call centers located in Morocco.
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Old 09-02-2015, 07:55 PM
 
Location: London, NYC & LA
861 posts, read 798,892 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by other99 View Post
Yes the posters here think in American terms as many that post here are Americans. Capitalism practiced in Western Europe has been different from America for at least 60 years. It is due to the evolution of the welfare state in Europe in contrast to the lasse faire system in the USA. Yet their society is under increasing pressure to practice American style capitalism.
That's a good point and this could possibly tip the balance. One of the factors some studies have pointed to for a popular welfare state is having a population that believes in a shared social contract. A sudden change in the make up of a population can undermine faith in that social contract and people then demand less money be contributed to welfare via the ballot box.

So in short if you feel your tax money is being spent on people you cannot identify with, you are less likely to want to contribute.

Maybe this crisis will hasten the decline of mass welfare in Europe and movement towards a more American model..?
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Old 09-02-2015, 08:06 PM
 
24,467 posts, read 19,609,782 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nograviti View Post
That's a good point and this could possibly tip the balance. One of the factors some studies have pointed to for a popular welfare state is having a population that believes in a shared social contract. A sudden change in the make up of a population can undermine faith in that social contract and people then demand less money be contributed to welfare via the ballot box.

So in short if you feel your tax money is being spent on people you cannot identify with, you are less likely to want to contribute.
That's the way I perceive the US while living here half of my life. This would be the key to the whole racial problem in the US, that's the way I see it. Money. Mutual distrust between "two groups."

Quote:
Maybe this crisis will hasten the decline of mass welfare in Europe and movement towards a more American model..?
But why would Europeans want to live in "American model?"
They live on the lands of their ancestors, with their own traditions and ideas.

Last edited by erasure; 09-02-2015 at 08:32 PM..
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Old 09-02-2015, 08:12 PM
 
Location: Lincoln County Road or Armageddon
4,417 posts, read 6,569,342 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by other99 View Post
Yes the posters here think in American terms as many that post here are Americans. Capitalism practiced in Western Europe has been different from America for at least 60 years. It is due to the evolution of the welfare state in Europe in contrast to the lasse faire system in the USA. Yet their society is under increasing pressure to practice American style capitalism.
Thank you for your insight (you too, erasure). You're quite correct in describing our American style capitalism as "laissez faire". One of my hopes is that Western Europe capitalism stays Western Europe capitalism and not morph into an American style (though some of the trade treaties i.e. the Trans Pacific Partnership worry me). There was a time when America treated her working class with respect but I'm afraid those days are gone. All about the profits now.
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Old 09-02-2015, 08:20 PM
 
24,467 posts, read 19,609,782 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vaughanwilliams View Post
Thank you for your insight (you too, erasure). You're quite correct in describing our American style capitalism as "laissez faire". One of my hopes is that Western Europe capitalism stays Western Europe capitalism and not morph into an American style (though some of the trade treaties i.e. the Trans Pacific Partnership worry me). There was a time when America treated her working class with respect but I'm afraid those days are gone. All about the profits now.
I agree with you. When I first arrived in the US, it was a very different country.
I caught the "last glimpse of sun" so to speak. The changes for the worse started ( and gradually progressed) shortly after.
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Old 09-02-2015, 09:56 PM
 
10,276 posts, read 9,508,144 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vaughanwilliams View Post
TThere was a time when America treated her working class with respect but I'm afraid those days are gone. All about the profits now.
It's always been about profits, throughout history, in both the U.S and Europe. There's little difference.

The U.S. is slightly richer and more flexible/dynamic economy, while Europe has a slightly stronger social welfare contract, but not really major differences.
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Old 09-04-2015, 02:09 AM
 
24,467 posts, read 19,609,782 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101 View Post
It's always been about profits, throughout history, in both the U.S and Europe. There's little difference.
Quote:
The U.S. is slightly richer and more flexible/dynamic economy, while Europe has a slightly stronger social welfare contract, but not really major differences.
Actually, THERE IS a big difference after all.
It USED to be all about profits for the upper class in Europe, initially.
But with time it became more about equality, more fair distribution of income, social protection and so on.
None of European countries were planning to use "profits" to rule the world with time - just to support the well-being of its nations.
The US however, whose main idea IS profits above anything else, are using these profits with the ultimate goal to rule the world ( we are talking the upper class first of all.) The well-being of the rest of its citizenry overall comes indeed secondary.
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