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Old 09-05-2015, 03:49 PM
 
3,308 posts, read 3,497,369 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101 View Post
No, the situation in Europe is nothing like in the U.S.

First, this is a crisis of people seeking asylum. The U.S. has relatively few asylum seekers, and there isn't much controversy around their asylum.

Second, the U.S. does not get that many "illegals", at least not nowadays. Most undocumented came decades ago. Most immigration experts believe the "illegal" population has actually dropped in recent years, so the most recent net numbers are probably less than zero (ie, more undocumented are leaving than entering). It's very difficult to enter the U.S. illegally, while comparatively easy to enter Western Europe illegally.

Third, most undocumented in the U.S. are hardworking Catholics of Latin American descent who came only to work (they don't even qualify for public benefits) while most undocumented in Europe are Muslims on public assistance who have no plans to work or integrate into society.

Fourth, the U.S. is a nation of immigrants, like a Canada or an Australia. The whole point of the U.S. is to be an immigrant melting pot. Most European countries are nation-states built around a common ethnic and cultural identity, so immigration of "others" threatens the state in a manner different than in a U.S. or Canada or Australia.

To be blunt, if the U.S. were majority Hispanic or Asian 100 years ago (won't happen, but let's pretend), the U.S. identity, for better or for worse, would remain about the same. But if Germany or France are majority Muslim 100 years from now, I am 100% certain that these countries will no longer have the same identity.
Very well said. This is a poor, poor comparison IMO.

Also, the illegal immigration problem in the U.S. is tied to the recruitment of poorer laborers for more than a century from that region.
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Old 09-05-2015, 04:11 PM
 
749 posts, read 789,603 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101 View Post
No, the situation in Europe is nothing like in the U.S.

First, this is a crisis of people seeking asylum. The U.S. has relatively few asylum seekers, and there isn't much controversy around their asylum.

Second, the U.S. does not get that many "illegals", at least not nowadays. Most undocumented came decades ago. Most immigration experts believe the "illegal" population has actually dropped in recent years, so the most recent net numbers are probably less than zero (ie, more undocumented are leaving than entering). It's very difficult to enter the U.S. illegally, while comparatively easy to enter Western Europe illegally.

Third, most undocumented in the U.S. are hardworking Catholics of Latin American descent who came only to work (they don't even qualify for public benefits) while most undocumented in Europe are Muslims on public assistance who have no plans to work or integrate into society.

Fourth, the U.S. is a nation of immigrants, like a Canada or an Australia. The whole point of the U.S. is to be an immigrant melting pot. Most European countries are nation-states built around a common ethnic and cultural identity, so immigration of "others" threatens the state in a manner different than in a U.S. or Canada or Australia.

To be blunt, if the U.S. were majority Hispanic or Asian 100 years ago (won't happen, but let's pretend), the U.S. identity, for better or for worse, would remain about the same. But if Germany or France are majority Muslim 100 years from now, I am 100% certain that these countries will no longer have the same identity.
I don't think it is as easy as you think to enter Europe illegally, probably you never tried. There are natural boundaries eg Mediterranean sea making it a difficult and dangerous enterprise. There are TONS of illegal immigrants in the US. Ever heard of sanctuary cities?

Most Hispanic immigrants in the US are peaceful people who just work to work honestly, just like immigrants in the EU from the Middle East. But not all. Let's not forget that while Muslims countries have al-qaeda and ISIS, Hispanic communities bring with them very powerful and violent gangs operating all over the US and in many countries, killing and beheading probably more people than all those Islamic extremist organisations put together. Furthermore when it comes to Latinos' welfare use and integration, a trip along the American southern border might make you think otherwise.

Saying the US is a nation of immigrants is like many things in the US, it's a gimmick. The country as we know it today was founded by a very homogenous group a people who really resisted newcomers arising from different cultures based on the grounds that those immigrants would alter the "real" American identity. The truth is Europe has long been a harbor for immigrants.
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Old 09-05-2015, 04:18 PM
 
10,276 posts, read 9,524,464 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seixal View Post
I don't think it is as easy as you think to enter Europe illegally, probably you never tried. There are natural boundaries eg Mediterranean sea making it a difficult and dangerous enterprise. There are TONS of illegal immigrants in the US. Ever heard of sanctuary cities?

Most Hispanic immigrants in the US are peaceful people who just work to work honestly, just like immigrants in the EU from the Middle East. But not all. Let's not forget that while Muslims countries have al-qaeda and ISIS, Hispanic communities bring with them very powerful and violent gangs operating all over the US and in many countries, killing and beheading probably more people than all those Islamic extremist organisations put together. Furthermore when it comes to Latinos' welfare use and integration, a trip along the American southern border might make you think otherwise.

Saying the US is a nation of immigrants is like many things in the US, it's a gimmick. The country as we know it today was founded by a very homogenous group a people who really resisted newcomers arising from different cultures based on the grounds that those immigrants would alter the "real" American identity. The truth is Europe has long been a harbor for immigrants.
Basically none of this is true.
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Old 09-05-2015, 04:39 PM
 
80 posts, read 70,758 times
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most mexicans in the US aren't even that different culturally from americans (eurocentric values, christians, speaking european languages)

most mexicans after two generations can't even speak spanish any longer, they all speak english, behave and act like an american!

that doesn't happen in europe with a lot of muslims.


illegal immigration to the US is pretty low these days... the mexicans that were gonna go to the US are pretty much in the US already!

diversity in the US is hanging out with a black american and with a mexican (the country next door).... diversity in europe is muslims, pakistanis, afghans and tons of africans and people u don't even relate to culturally! (Europe is screwed)
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Old 09-05-2015, 07:40 PM
 
749 posts, read 789,603 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mayser View Post
most mexicans in the US aren't even that different culturally from americans (eurocentric values, christians, speaking european languages)

most mexicans after two generations can't even speak spanish any longer, they all speak english, behave and act like an american!

that doesn't happen in europe with a lot of muslims.


illegal immigration to the US is pretty low these days... the mexicans that were gonna go to the US are pretty much in the US already!

diversity in the US is hanging out with a black american and with a mexican (the country next door).... diversity in europe is muslims, pakistanis, afghans and tons of africans and people u don't even relate to culturally! (Europe is screwed)

What eurocentric values do Hispanics have? Latinos are culturally very far from Europeans (if that even means anything)
In California Texas many Mexicans do not speak a word of english despite having lived in the country for 20 years. In England, France and Belgium all Arab immigrants even the older generation speak french or english, and do not have forms and "for spanish press 1" type of thing. In many areas in Cali you can go around for miles and not a a single person that's not hispanic, tacos and burritos stands all over the place, hundreds of radio stations in spanish.
I have lived in Europe and in the US and I can tell you that Muslims are as well or as bad integrated as Hispanics for the simple reason that when large amounts of immigrants cannot be assimilated easily.
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Old 09-05-2015, 07:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101 View Post
Basically none of this is true.
Basically that is not an argument.
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Old 09-05-2015, 08:03 PM
 
80 posts, read 70,758 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seixal View Post
What eurocentric values do Hispanics have? Latinos are culturally very far from Europeans (if that even means anything)
In California Texas many Mexicans do not speak a word of english despite having lived in the country for 20 years. In England, France and Belgium all Arab immigrants even the older generation speak french or english, and do not have forms and "for spanish press 1" type of thing. In many areas in Cali you can go around for miles and not a a single person that's not hispanic, tacos and burritos stands all over the place, hundreds of radio stations in spanish.
I have lived in Europe and in the US and I can tell you that Muslims are as well or as bad integrated as Hispanics for the simple reason that when large amounts of immigrants cannot be assimilated easily.
Right, because the spanish speaking world is california and its indigenous mexicans.... I mean from Argentina all the way up to Cuba, Spain, the Philippines in Asia and so on, EVERY SINGLE SPANISH SPEAKER IS THE MEXICAN PEOPLE FROM CALIFORNIA!

California was part of Mexico 120 years ago and was so for thousands of years, what did you expect? you're gonna see Mexicans everywhere... it's their land! DONT LIKE IT? THEN LEAVE!

Btw Spanish is a European language (bet you didn't know that) Ever heard of Spain? it's a country in Europe.... that is where Spanish comes from! Not mexico or los angeles!

Last edited by Rozenn; 09-07-2015 at 01:23 PM.. Reason: Rude
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Old 09-05-2015, 08:16 PM
 
10,276 posts, read 9,524,464 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seixal View Post
Basically that is not an argument.
I know; that's my point. You just wrote garbage, and no one is going to bother refuting every single nonsense sentence you wrote.
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Old 09-05-2015, 08:49 PM
 
749 posts, read 789,603 times
Reputation: 859
@ mayser and NOLA relax brothers.

You guys have a double standards problems when it comes to being tolerant so it means that Muslims in Europe only make problems, are terrorists, abuse the welfare but Latinos in the US are all hard working honest people and however says dares qualifying this statement is racist and ignorant.
I think you guys probably whine about Donald Trump but are no better than him, except he his talking about something in his own country when you not being Europeans citizens have no business saying who is or isn't welcome there since your tax money sin't going to be spent to support these people.

Oh and California is an american territory. I have no problems with Mexicans but this is not more or less my country than theirs.

Cheers
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Old 09-05-2015, 08:52 PM
 
80 posts, read 70,758 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by seixal View Post
@ mayser and NOLA relax brothers.

You guys have a double standards problems when it comes to being tolerant so it means that Muslims in Europe only make problems, are terrorists, abuse the welfare but Latinos in the US are all hard working honest people and however says dares qualifying this statement is racist and ignorant.
I think you guys probably whine about Donald Trump but are no better than him, except he his talking about something in his own country when you not being Europeans citizens have no business saying who is or isn't welcome there since your tax money sin't going to be spent to support these people.

Oh and California is an american territory. I have no problems with Mexicans but this is not more or less my country than theirs.

Cheers
it is THEIR country

most of those "mexicans" that annoy you because they're in california, have been in california for THOUSANDS OF YEARS.... far before the spaniards ever discovered the americas for the europeans!

Ever heard of Aztlan? of the Aztecs? well that is where they come from!!!

HOW DARE YOU insinuate that those indigenous people are immigrants in a place like California!!! YOU'RE THE IMMIGRANT IN THEIR LAND

it's like me going to portugal and being mad because you're there

Last edited by mayser; 09-05-2015 at 09:05 PM..
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