World Class Cafes According To Ambiance, Cafe Bar Restaurant Vibe, Wifi, Menu. My Favorite Cafes Discovery Everywhere. (beach, castle)

[improb]

Originally Posted by Ariete

A lot. Really. Many workers who work mainly on their computer don't have to go to the office at all. My stepdad works for an IT company and he goes to the office maybe once in two weeks.

And many want to "go to work", and concentrate much better in a café than in their homes where they can get more easily distracted.

Very common here.

It's actually not here. May it be because Helsinki is more of an IT city? Anyway, i'm not stating that bars shouldn't have wi-fi but that it isn't a defining quality for one. It isn't something which elevates a bar over another except for this little minority (5% at most even somewhere such as Helsinki, Vienna, Milan, ecc.)

Also, what i find ironical of OP is that he despises chains to then claim his love for posh cafes which not everyone can afford due to their high prices, which serve meals, coffees, drinks, ecc. of standard quality. Also, while knocking all these chains, he also claims to love one of the most chains-friendly areas of the whole country, isn't that contradictory?

[Ariete]

Originally Posted by improb

It's actually not here. May it be because Helsinki is more of an IT city? Anyway, i'm not stating that bars shouldn't have wi-fi but that it isn't a defining quality for one. It isn't something which elevates a bar over another except for this little minority (5% at most even somewhere such as Helsinki, Vienna, Milan, ecc.)

Also, what i find ironical of OP is that he despises chains to then claim his love for posh cafes which not everyone can afford due to their high prices, which serve meals, coffees, drinks, ecc. of standard quality. Also, while knocking all these chains, he also claims to love one of the most chains-friendly areas of the whole country, isn't that contradictory?

The work culture here has gone more and more to the point that if you don't necessarily have to be at the office if you don't have to do so. You work for 8 hours wherever you are. People in the IT field, journalists, university researchers... To add, many cafés in Finland serve a lunch so you can eat while being at work, don't have to commute, but at the same time you're not inside in your home but can be with people.

And I don't disagree with you at all. Wifi is not needed at a café, but serves as a bonus for the independent workers. They might be there all day, drink 5 cups of coffee, buy fried salmon and potatoes with herbs for lunch, and when they've finished they order a beer. So good customers as well, especially if they come there every day. And many do. My stepdad rented a small corner office with his brother who is an entrepreneur, as they had the desire of going away from home to work, as at home you get easily distracted. At the same time my stepdad's commute dropped from 40 minutes in a car to a 7 minute walk.

What I feel funny is that Nordic cafés are sometimes quite simplistic in decor on purpose and focus more on service and ambience than decor. Simplistic untreatred wood tables and white walls are 'Scandinavian style', and we don't copy the grandieuse Viennese or Parisian salons with chandeliers. So now when we have heard that "we have no culture", but when we express it and have our own thing, we suddenly should copy what is good in France or Italy? And wifi is not a part of this. To be frank, some of those picture posted reeked of €20 shirts, fake watches and hair gel.

[improb]

Originally Posted by Ariete

The work culture here has gone more and more to the point that if you don't necessarily have to be at the office if you don't have to do so. You work for 8 hours wherever you are. People in the IT field, journalists, university researchers... To add, many cafés in Finland serve a lunch so you can eat while being at work, don't have to commute, but at the same time you're not inside in your home but can be with people.

And I don't disagree with you at all. Wifi is not needed at a café, but serves as a bonus for the independent workers. They might be there all day, drink 5 cups of coffee, buy fried salmon and potatoes with herbs for lunch, and when they've finished they order a beer. So good customers as well, especially if they come there every day. And many do. My stepdad rented a small corner office with his brother who is an entrepreneur, as they had the desire of going away from home to work, as at home you get easily distracted. At the same time my stepdad's commute dropped from 40 minutes in a car to a 7 minute walk.

What I feel funny is that Nordic cafés are sometimes quite simplistic in decor on purpose and focus more on service and ambience than decor. Simplistic untreatred wood tables and white walls are 'Scandinavian style', and we don't copy the grandieuse Viennese or Parisian salons with chandeliers. So now when we have heard that "we have no culture", but when we express it and have our own thing, we suddenly should copy what is good in France or Italy? And wifi is not a part of this. To be frank, some of those picture posted reeked of €20 shirts, fake watches and hair gel.

Oh, you are right and more and more places offer special lunch menus for workers here as well, especially in Northern Italy. They are mostly addressed at workers who are given free lunch time (usually between 12:00 and 13:00) and whose house is too far to commute to and back. They are not only cheap (as cheap as €7-8 for a dish of pasta, a drink plus a meat/vegetables) but also offer tasty food. The thing is that here down South is usual for people to sit down and spend hours at the bar whereas Northerners always complain about being on a rush or the lack of places who offer sitting (there are enough though, it's just that Italians have to complain about anything when they don't want to walk 100 meters more to another bar other than their own)

And yes, that's what i am trying to make him understand and why i called him a yupster

[Ariete]

Originally Posted by improb

Oh, you are right and more and more places offer special lunch menus for workers here as well, especially in Northern Italy. They are mostly addressed at workers who are given free lunch time (usually between 12:00 and 13:00) and whose house is too far to commute to and back. They are not only cheap (as cheap as €7-8 for a dish of pasta, a drink plus a meat/vegetables) but also offer tasty food. The thing is that here down South is usual for people to sit down and spend hours at the bar whereas Northerners always complain about being on a rush or the lack of places who offer sitting (there are enough though, it's just that Italians have to complain about anything when they don't want to walk 100 meters more to another bar other than their own)

And yes, that's what i am trying to make him understand and why i called him a yupster

I think that this is about cultural differences. IIRC in Italy you go to a café just as a habit with your friends, as you've always done so. Here you have to have a reason to go to a café, with your friends, to work or as a stop in your day. You have to have a reason to go to the place, or you can sip some regular coffee at home. The café I posted pictures of earlier have philosophical and poetry gatherings. Another here close is as much of an art gallery as an café. A successful café must have some happenings, a bakery or a lunch service in order to survive, as otherwise people won't stay. And usually the food menus aren't some English pub food or microwave crap, but restaurant food quality.
Another factor which is a competitor is simply the climate. When the weather's good, we tend to be outside as much as possible, and as we like to drink and alcohol is expensive, you sit down in a park or here at the riverfront instead of spending your money in an "expensive" café.

Summer warmth and people just hanging around:



1st "warm" day in March, all crowding the patios when it's 9C.

[improb]

Originally Posted by Ariete

I think that this is about cultural differences. IIRC in Italy you go to a café just as a habit with your friends, as you've always done so. Here you have to have a reason to go to a café, with your friends, to work or as a stop in your day. You have to have a reason to go to the place, or you can sip some regular coffee at home. The café I posted pictures of earlier have philosophical and poetry gatherings. Another here close is as much of an art gallery as an café. A successful café must have some happenings, a bakery or a lunch service in order to survive, as otherwise people won't stay. And usually the food menus aren't some English pub food or microwave crap, but restaurant food quality.
Another factor which is a competitor is simply the climate. When the weather's good, we tend to be outside as much as possible, and as we like to drink and alcohol is expensive, you sit down in a park or here at the riverfront instead of spending your money in an "expensive" café.

Summer warmth and people just hanging around:



1st "warm" day in March, all crowding the patios when it's 9C.

I guess so, there are several cafes or bars who don't offer any events but people just keep going as long as there are patios outdoors from March to November or in winter some chairs and tables inside and hot chocolate/coffee on offer. There are coffees who offer live exhibition, cultural offerings (poetry gatherings, ecc.), ecc. but they are the exception rather than the norm.

[Ariete]

Originally Posted by improb

I guess so, there are several cafes or bars who don't offer any events but people just keep going as long as there are patios outdoors from March to November or in winter some chairs and tables inside and hot chocolate/coffee on offer. There are coffees who offer live exhibition, cultural offerings (poetry gatherings, ecc.), ecc. but they are the exception rather than the norm.

Oh no, don't get me wrong. Most cafés here don't offer anything special, but they are competitors to your sofa at home, the park in summer, lunch restaurants, the pubs or the bus schedules. Finland is more a local pub culture than local café culture, but combined they can be great! Both the café and pub culture are thriving, but not quite the same as in Italy.

Nevertheless, a World Class Café With Ambience Wifi Restaurant Vibe Atmosphere is secondary.

Come up here and we'll sit down for a espresso at a café patio and you can wonder why people don't have caps on their heads though its 7C.