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Old 02-09-2016, 03:08 PM
 
192 posts, read 153,970 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thepastpresentandfuture View Post
Despite some radicalism, is Turkey a relatively progressive and secular enough Islam majority nation? Are you a native Turkish citizen, and living in the country of Turkey?
I'm a Westerner who has lived in Turkey for years.

Turkey is highly mixed. As a rule of thumb, the Western coastal regions are more progressive and secular, and the inland areas/Central Anatolian regions are more religious and conservative(except Eskişehir). The Eastern Black Sea region and the Southeast (the Kurdish region) have a reputation for being very religious and conservative, and for the most part it is true(based on my conversations with people from those regions), but there are many exception to this, most notably the Alevis, a religious sect about as far from Sunni as Unitarian Universalism is from Catholicism. Istanbul is interesting because it is a microcosm of the entire country. Probably around a third or a fourth of the people here are second generation or older, most of them are from other cities or were born to transplants from other cities, which makes Istanbul more conservative than might be expected.

The vast majority of Alevis and most people from Izmir would be considered quite progressive by American standards. But overall, the population of Turkey is more religious and conservative than the population of America.

Quote:

Woah, extremely bizarre Turkey is this hijacked occasionally just two years later. Are you ever feeling nostalgic or deeply missing the past? Honestly, I have this exact mindset with all of Planet Earth, including where I live with NYC, and Seattle. They both declined way too much just 2 years later.
It was hijacked well before that. But there was a feeling that 'saner voices in the AKP will prevail' until 2011. Most of the outside world didn't start to see the problems before the summer of 2013, and it has just continued to get worse.

I think Istanbul peaked in the first part of 2013. Restoration work had finished on most of the historic buildings which are currently in use, none of the major projects (the third bridge over the Bosphorus, the third airport) had progressed enough to have any impact on the city, the streets weren't full of Syrian beggars and the police state was mostly hidden from view.


Quote:
Despite some problems, Turkey is still a very amazing and exotic country of wonder with tons of touristic destinations everywhere. Turkey is the 6th highest visited nation in the entire Planet Earth according to international tourist arrivals with around 39.8 million foreigners traveling there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tourism_rankings Tons of marvelous areas to live around Turkey too.
I agree.

Quote:
I just really hope they stabilize the internal or neighboring external situation before ever getting worse. Is this just because of Syria and nothing else? What is your expert opinion to why just some years later everything got more confusing?
Even if war hadn't broken out in Syria, there would still be many problems here. There is a narcissistic megalomaniac running the country, and the mechanisms which put him in such of a position of power were being laid well before the Arab Spring.

The Syrian war, however, has made things much worse. The most negative effect of the war is ISIS, of course, but there is a refugee problem here, too, and it's larger than the one in Europe. There are well over 2,500,000 Syrian refugees (the number will probably reach 3 million before long) plus a large number of refugees/asylum seekers from other countries (particularly Iraq). The relationship between the locals and the refugees seems to be better here than it is in Europe, for the most part, but there is a great deal of "Arab-fatigue" setting in. In Istanbul, this probably has more to do with all the Arab tourists and semi-residents(i.e. rich Arabs who have bought property which they use as a season residence), and it's understandable--these Arabs, and especially the ones from Gulf countries, are often very difficult to deal with. They can be rude, pushy and very loud, they've driven up the price of real estate and, perhaps worst of all, they are a reminder of a way of life Turks turned their backs on long ago. Niqabs and polygamy are alien to (Western) Turkey, but they abound among the Arabs who summer here. Anyway, even though these Arabs have nothing to do with Syrians, it's only a matter of time before they start bearing the brunt of this frustration.

Also, I suspect that the war which has broken out in the Southeast most likely wouldn't have happened if it weren't for the Syrian war.

Quote:
With my own careful thinking, I am enthusiastic to travel almost anywhere even right now around the country of Turkey. Except for the extreme far southeast border regions less than 5 miles away from the Syria border. That is less than 1% of the nation anyways. Are you agreeing with those Travel Maps on post number 2 page 1?

When or if I get my Romania paid farm work upcoming spring-summer-autumn right around my Uncle's farm of Constanta Romania, I want to use the extra money to travel right before or after to Istanbul Turkey, Bulgaria, Georgia, and maybe even Cyprus or Azerbaijan.

I'd avoid many parts of the Southeast. There is a low-level war going on there, and 'mini-Fallujah's keep popping up in the urban areas. So far it's been limited to the provinces of Şırnak and Dıyarbakır, but who knows where they might happen next.

The Black Sea coast should be fine.
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Old 02-09-2016, 07:19 PM
 
Location: Seoul
11,584 posts, read 8,431,122 times
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Turkey can be quite conservative, I have Turkish friends and whenever they get into a relationship it is necessary for all the parents to know about it
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Old 02-10-2016, 02:00 AM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
22,126 posts, read 26,439,146 times
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As if! Every part of the U.S. is safe!

What's overlooked is the potential for natural catastrophes, like an earthquake could strike anywhere along the Pacific Rim at any time!

I escaped an 8.0, in Santiago, mid-80's, by just one day! And no travel advisories for Chile at that time!
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Old 02-13-2016, 10:09 PM
 
7,348 posts, read 12,841,268 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yabanci View Post
I'm a Westerner who has lived in Turkey for years.

Turkey is highly mixed. As a rule of thumb, the Western coastal regions are more progressive and secular, and the inland areas/Central Anatolian regions are more religious and conservative(except Eskişehir). The Eastern Black Sea region and the Southeast (the Kurdish region) have a reputation for being very religious and conservative, and for the most part it is true(based on my conversations with people from those regions), but there are many exception to this, most notably the Alevis, a religious sect about as far from Sunni as Unitarian Universalism is from Catholicism. Istanbul is interesting because it is a microcosm of the entire country. Probably around a third or a fourth of the people here are second generation or older, most of them are from other cities or were born to transplants from other cities, which makes Istanbul more conservative than might be expected.

The vast majority of Alevis and most people from Izmir would be considered quite progressive by American standards. But overall, the population of Turkey is more religious and conservative than the population of America.
Surprising. I thought you are a native Turkish citizen without any relations to the West always residing in the nation of Turkey your entire life. What country are you originally from? Are you studying abroad, having paid work there, or another type of Foreign Expatriate experience?

Absolutely, Turkey is a land of unimaginable extremes and much more division than almost any other country in the entire World. One main reason why is because of geography. Bordering Bulgaria/Greece/Cyprus all the way to Georgia in between, then Armenia, and even Azerbaijan to Iran/Iraq/Syria on the opposite end. Simple to ultra complex Guarantee to affect the country of Turkey depending on the exact area. Another second main cause and effect is the polarizing variation of lifestyle between the more progressive secular realm of the national demographics compared to the traditional conservative ones.

Wow, those Alevis are a very unique bunch. They remind me of Indonesian's version of Islam for people practicing a blend of Hinduism Buddhism with their Islam Muslim beliefs, creating a blend. Around Turkey, Alevis constitute more than 15% of all inhabitants and more than 11.8 million people. How alien are ethnic Kurds compared to Turkic/Turkish/Turks majority? Woah, Istanbul more conservative than original identification. What are the single top 3 highest progressive secular major cities towns of Turkey if none of them include Istanbul?


Quote:
It was hijacked well before that. But there was a feeling that 'saner voices in the AKP will prevail' until 2011. Most of the outside world didn't start to see the problems before the summer of 2013, and it has just continued to get worse.

I think Istanbul peaked in the first part of 2013. Restoration work had finished on most of the historic buildings which are currently in use, none of the major projects (the third bridge over the Bosphorus, the third airport) had progressed enough to have any impact on the city, the streets weren't full of Syrian beggars and the police state was mostly hidden from view.
Was Turkey always a hijacked country? Just seems the past two years there was exponential spiraling outside of less control. Vaguely resembling anything existing before 2013. Are there any optimistic signs to improve those internal domestic external conflicts?

I believe all of Planet Earth had a golden maximum peak around the years 1990s-January 2015, especially right around 2000 to 2013. I think the best year with all of Planet Earth record history was the year 2005. Honestly, I am able to list endless reasons why this referenced time frame was the best time ever with this World.

NYC and Seattle drastically declined just two years later or even less than one year later with NYC's case. They aren't even recognizable now. NYC peaked the year 2000 to January 2015, and Seattle 1990-2013.

Syria is a solid Cultural Anthropological metaphor to how some of Planet Earth severely declined all of a sudden. I wish some countries of mainland Europe, and Turkey never had to deal with those darn Syrian refugees encroaching on their privacy.

Quote:
I agree.
There is tons of redeeming qualities on the country of Turkey. Despite some problems, they can be easily ignored, except for 1% of the entire nation with the far extreme Southeast border lands.

Quote:
Even if war hadn't broken out in Syria, there would still be many problems here. There is a narcissistic megalomaniac running the country, and the mechanisms which put him in such of a position of power were being laid well before the Arab Spring.
I don't really have faith with politics. The USA President has done nothing for this country that was really constructive or trying to maintain the best traits to take care of or salvage. Woah, 3 million refugees is unbelievably difficult to conceive. Why don't they just go to Jordan much more? Ironically, Jordan is totally not a Syria at all and occasionally a polar opposite. Incredible, and some people might not acknowledge those facts of reality.

Wealthy Arabs of UAE, Bahrain, Qatar, Kuwait, Oman, and Saudi Arabia aren't really having that much common similarities with Syria. Rather stable countries, lots of money for the average citizen, rank infinitely higher at the Global Peace Index rather than at the bottom, and rather secular enough, progressive moderate, not too wrongly radical (Except ultra traditional, conservative Saudi Arabia).

Quote:
The Syrian war, however, has made things much worse. The most negative effect of the war is ISIS, of course, but there is a refugee problem here, too, and it's larger than the one in Europe. There are well over 2,500,000 Syrian refugees (the number will probably reach 3 million before long) plus a large number of refugees/asylum seekers from other countries (particularly Iraq). The relationship between the locals and the refugees seems to be better here than it is in Europe, for the most part, but there is a great deal of "Arab-fatigue" setting in. In Istanbul, this probably has more to do with all the Arab tourists and semi-residents(i.e. rich Arabs who have bought property which they use as a season residence), and it's understandable--these Arabs, and especially the ones from Gulf countries, are often very difficult to deal with. They can be rude, pushy and very loud, they've driven up the price of real estate and, perhaps worst of all, they are a reminder of a way of life Turks turned their backs on long ago. Niqabs and polygamy are alien to (Western) Turkey, but they abound among the Arabs who summer here. Anyway, even though these Arabs have nothing to do with Syrians, it's only a matter of time before they start bearing the brunt of this frustration.

Also, I suspect that the war which has broken out in the Southeast most likely wouldn't have happened if it weren't for the Syrian war.

I'd avoid many parts of the Southeast. There is a low-level war going on there, and 'mini-Fallujah's keep popping up in the urban areas. So far it's been limited to the provinces of Şırnak and Dıyarbakır, but who knows where they might happen next.

The Black Sea coast should be fine.
Oh, the Syrian conflict is a motivation to Southeast Turkey's major dilemma.

Around Turkey's 81 Provinces, there is maybe around just 11 Provinces at most with really severe problems while the other 70 Provinces being stable enough for now. Just 2 of those provinces seem to be no-go zones.

Is the Turkish Riviera and all of Turkish Mediterranean more superior relevant to these matters (Peace, Stability, Safety) compared to the Black Sea regions?

Nevertheless, Magnificent to have such a varied nation.
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Old 02-20-2016, 09:57 PM
 
7,348 posts, read 12,841,268 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davy-040 View Post
Antalya Province, 2002 and 2011.

I wouldn't travel to any Islamic country right now.
Further verification of your unwarranted dismay towards anything Islamic, Muslim, Arab OR Middle Eastern. Why are you not even wanting to travel towards even the relatively progressive, secular, and not too radical Islamic Middle Eastern nations? Those alternatives are around and certainly exist, including right now. Limiting too much of your Planet Earth options aren't you, technically?

Have you enjoyed your trip to Turkey when you are visiting? Was there a severe decline at Antalya Province from the year 2002 to 2011? Even the Dutch Travel Agency Global Map claims these Muslim majority nations: Malaysia, Morocco, Kazakhstan, Albania, Cyprus(Turkish Cypriots north area of the island), and Brunei are the safest levels realistically available. Same ranking compared to a vast majority of European countries. And Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Indonesia, UAE, Oman, Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain, Bosnia Herzegovina, Azerbaijan are all welcoming enough according to the map and equal to Croatia.


When people really learn deep down, there are enough Middle Eastern Islam Muslim Arab countries around that aren't really too dangerous or with too much if any issues. Everyone is just having to research occasionally. Legitimate sources of information say there is about an equal amount of those very safe, rather safe, safe enough, neutral, sort of dangerous, and extremely dangerous Islam Muslim countries occurring. Select your available options that are all right and worth the travel adventure there. Being an Islamic country isn't suddenly going to omit the travel destination.
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Old 02-20-2016, 10:42 PM
 
7,348 posts, read 12,841,268 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warszawa View Post
The Dutch map is really bad when it comes to Latin America. Chile, Patagonia, Bolivia and Peru should not be on the same level as Venezuela, El Salvador or Northern Mexico
Why is Colombia displaying such high variation much more than any other country in this entire World? Alternating Between No Safety Concerns= Green, Safety Concerns= Yellow, Only Necessary Travel= Orange, Don't travel here= Red. Is there exact geographic positioning on those regions of Colombia to approve accuracy of the Travel Advisory index?

Yeah, the Dutch Travel Agency map wasn't really exactly correct with some of those Central America South America land territories. Especially Argentina, and Chile with deserving to rank similarly to Uruguay. Bizarre Venezuela, Honduras, and El Salvador isn't ranked much more troubling to foreigners or tourists, and of course locals. Brazil is supposed to be equally varied with travel advice guidance if not more than the country of Mexico. Peru is maybe much more stable than what the map is suggesting to everyone.

Vast swaths of South America are undeniably much more settled out than Central Colombia no doubt!
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Old 02-21-2016, 04:25 AM
 
Location: Eindhoven, Netherlands
10,542 posts, read 14,762,035 times
Reputation: 5126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thepastpresentandfuture View Post
Why are you not even wanting to travel towards even the relatively progressive, secular, and not too radical Islamic Middle Eastern nations?
Those alternatives are around and certainly exist, including right now.

Limiting too much of your Planet Earth options aren't you, technically?

Have you enjoyed your trip to Turkey when you are visiting? Was there a severe decline at Antalya Province from the year 2002 to 2011?

Even the Dutch Travel Agency Global Map claims these Muslim majority nations: Malaysia, Morocco, Kazakhstan, Albania, Cyprus(Turkish Cypriots north area of the island), and Brunei are the safest levels realistically available. Same ranking compared to a vast majority of European countries. And Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Indonesia, UAE, Oman, Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain, Bosnia Herzegovina, Azerbaijan are all welcoming enough according to the map and equal to Croatia.
Because there are too many rules i can't accept as a atheist.

There are nearly 200 countries, most of them are not Islamic so still enough to discover.

I didn't really enjoy my trips compared to the other ones.

I don't care what travel agencies say, they get sponsored with oil money.
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Old 02-21-2016, 12:16 PM
 
4,675 posts, read 3,497,516 times
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I would be interested to see travel indexes from non western countries, maybe China, Iran, Japan, Russia. I looked but couldn't find any.
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Old 02-23-2016, 02:07 PM
FBF
 
606 posts, read 852,000 times
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I generally ignore the American advisory warnings, because with the exception of Iraq and Syria (because they are civil wars at the moment), they are very paranoiac about countries which are not listed as that dangerous compared to other countries' warnings (Mexico, EU:Schengen, all Muslim countries, and much of Latin America).


Yes there are certain dangers which are unique about each region, but the US advisory warnings never mention their own country's most dangerous areas (due to higher number of gun wielding idiots). I felt safer in the EU, Mexico, and even Turkey!




I usually do not tell other Americans where I have been because instead of being happy for me, they are like "Are you insane? Why on earth would you go to such dangerous places?" or they become jealous.......
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Old 02-27-2016, 11:30 PM
 
7,348 posts, read 12,841,268 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davy-040 View Post
Because there are too many rules i can't accept as a atheist.

There are nearly 200 countries, most of them are not Islamic so still enough to discover.

I didn't really enjoy my trips compared to the other ones.

I don't care what travel agencies say, they get sponsored with oil money.
Unfathomable you are not taking away your extreme unconditional hatred of absolutely anything Islamic. Too much extreme split thinking when there is an between mixed variable. It's called Splitting in Psychology: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splitt...8psychology%29. Find your Dutch language version counterpart of Wikipedia. I am sure the same article is there.

All Muslims, Islamic entities, the Middle East, and the Arab World is having beyond a division. Much more than ever before in all of recorded history on Planet Earth. Even when there are reasons to negatively stigmatize endlessly, there is still lots of them going against those false stereotypes. Also, highly depends on the exact country and ethnic demographic.

Ironically, there is strangely up to at least 37 various Muslim majority countries with all of Planet Earth. You really are closing yourself up to a lot of the Globe. Borderline to severe anemic limitation. Honestly, even I am quite disappointed that much of this World is Islamic somehow technically. Yet I am open enough to the decently welcoming ones I have referenced earlier. Including with another original topic. (Azerbaijan, Malaysia, Indonesia, Brunei, Kazakhstan, Albania, Bosnia, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, UAE, Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait, Morocco, Turkey, Tajikistan, Bangladesh, and some others). Around 20 out of 37 of them are safe enough or not too dangerous, and usually rank sufficiently enough on the Global Peace Index.

When will the excessive news media sensationalism finally end? I never fully endorse or support the Islamic definition term, or advocate any of those labels, occasionally even possessing some prejudice myself. However, I just can't view such unwarranted discrimination to that level. Regardless of religious or spiritual affiliation. I am agnostic myself with mixed Christian, Buddhist, Hindu beliefs only.
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