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Old 11-10-2015, 02:47 AM
 
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I can understand some Middle English

The Lourdes Preyere

Oure fadir that art in heuenes,
halewid be thi name;
thi kyngdoom come to;
be thi wille don, in erthe as in heuene.
Yyue to vs this dai oure breed ouer othir substaunce,
and foryyue to vs oure dettis, as we foryyuen to oure dettouris;
and lede vs not in to temptacioun, but delyuere vs fro yuel. Amen.

Read more: Lord's Prayer Middle English


Yet Old English definitely not understand in written form but could be somewhat understood in its spoken form.

Last edited by other99; 11-10-2015 at 03:17 AM..
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Old 11-10-2015, 04:03 AM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
9,362 posts, read 14,304,816 times
Reputation: 10081
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouldy Old Schmo View Post
If Italian, can you read The Divine Comedy in its original dialect?

If French, can you read The Song of Roland in Old French?

Old Chinese? Middle Chinese? Old English? Middle English? Etc?

To me, Shakespeare and King James are an utterly foreign language. On the other hand, probably because I studied Latin, I have, or had, an easier time with "middle period" romance languages. But I'd rather read historians and theologians in Latin and Greek than poets, playwrights and philosophers in any contemporary language.

I believe that average contemporary Greek-speakers without at least some training in philology, broadly speaking, find ancient, hellenistic, koine and katharevousa Greek pretty much foreign, but personally I find the first three general periods more useful. But, again, I'd rather read historians and theologians than poets, playwrights and philosophers.
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Old 11-10-2015, 04:18 AM
 
990 posts, read 880,350 times
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Português arcaico or galego português.

The first text when it is more Portuguese than Latin (1.000 years ago) I think if I have never studied Latin I can't understand.

But in the same epoca or before we found music (trovadas) in old Portuguese and yes it is easier to understand the main idea. So we imagine that they use Latin to write and formal occasions but the Latin speak informal it was closer to the language that we speak nowadays.


I – DOCUMENTO LATINO-PORTUGUÊS DE 1008

« ... et illa alia mediatate reserbam(us) pro nos. Et nec vindamus nec donemus ad alio omine nisit ad ti ou tu a nos. Abeas fírmiter de nostro dato ( ... ) et fauolastis proa me ad meo marito Uirterla et dimisit mici illa merze et rezebit me pro sua muliere et consudunasti nos todos tres in tua kasa ad tua bcmfeitoria ( ... ) nos illa devindigare non potuerimus pos tua parte ou tu in uoci nostra ... »2.


http://cvc.instituto-camoes.pt/hlp/b...cronologia.pdf



João Garcia de Guilhade
A Dom Foam quer'eu gram mal
e quer'a sa molher gram bem;
gram sazom há que m'est'avém
e nunca i já farei al;
ca, des quand'eu sa molher vi,
se púdi, sempre a servi
e sempr'a ele busquei mal.
Quero-me já maenfestar,
e pesará muit'[a] alguém,
mais, sequer que moira por en,
dizer quer'eu do mao mal
e bem da que mui bõa for,
qual nom há no mundo melhor,
quero-[o] já maenfestar.
De parecer e de falar
e de bõas manhas haver,
ela, nõn'a pode vencer
dona no mund', a meu cuidar;
ca ela fez Nostro Senhor
e el fez o Demo maior,
e o Demo o faz falar.
E pois ambos ataes som,
como eu tenho no coraçom,
os julg'Aquel que pod'e val.

http://cantigas.fcsh.unl.pt/cantiga....nt=1533&pv=sim
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Old 11-10-2015, 04:49 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,876 posts, read 38,019,680 times
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I've studied both Shakespeare in English and Molière in French. They're roughly from the same era.

IMO Molière is easier to understand for a contemporary French speaker than Shakespeare for today's English speaker.
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Old 11-10-2015, 07:47 AM
 
692 posts, read 957,239 times
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I mean the "old" version of my language is French...so...yes lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ- View Post
This ? https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/La_Ch...e_Roland/Texte

Li reis Marsilie out sun cunseill finet,
Sin apelat Clarin de Balaguet,
Estamarin e Eudropin, sun per,
65E Priamun e Guarlan le barbet
E Machiner e sun uncle, Maheu,
E Joüner e Malbien d’ultremer
E Blancandrins, por la raisun ****er.
Des plus feluns dis en ad apelez :
70« Seignurs baruns, a Carlemagnes irez.
Il est al siege a Cordres la citet.
Branches d’olives en voz mains porterez, (des branches d'olives dans vos mains vous porterez)
Ço senefiet pais e humilitet.
Par voz saveirs sem puez acorder,
75 Jo vos durrai or e argent asez,
Teres e fiez tant *** vos en vuldrez. »
Dient paien : « De ço avun nus asez ! »


I can understand a bit but certainly not pronounce it.

I found this pretty ugly TBH.
This looks a lot like Provençal
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Old 11-10-2015, 12:08 PM
 
1,600 posts, read 1,888,482 times
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Nel mezzo del cammin di nostra vita
mi ritrovai per una selva oscura,
ché la diritta via era smarrita.
Ahi quanto a dir qual era è cosa dura
esta selva selvaggia e aspra e forte
che nel pensier rinova la paura!
Tant' è amara che poco è più morte;
ma per trattar del ben ch'i' vi trovai,
dirò de l'altre cose ch'i' v'ho scorte.
Io non so ben ridir com' i' v'intrai,
tant' era pien di sonno a quel punto
che la verace via abbandonai.


This the Divine Comedy, Canto I, vv. 1-12.
While it's a very complex syntax and vocabulary it is perfectly understandable, also because Italian is an extremely conservative language.
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Old 11-10-2015, 01:39 PM
 
10,889 posts, read 2,191,466 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I've studied both Shakespeare in English and Molière in French. They're roughly from the same era.

IMO Molière is easier to understand for a contemporary French speaker than Shakespeare for today's English speaker.
Yes, French of this era was already more understandable. Like this little sample of L'Avare.

VALÈRE.- Hé quoi, charmante Élise, vous devenez mélancolique, après les obligeantes assurances que vous avez eu la bonté de me donner de votre foi ? Je vous vois soupirer, hélas, au milieu de ma joie ! Est-ce du regret, dites-moi, de m’avoir fait heureux ? et vous repentez-vous de cet engagement où mes feux ont pu vous contraindre [1] ?
ÉLISE.- Non, Valère, je ne puis pas me repentir de tout ce que je fais pour vous. Je m’y sens entraîner par une trop douce puissance, et je n’ai pas même la force de souhaiter que les choses ne fussent pas. Mais, à vous dire vrai, le succès [2] me donne de l’inquiétude ; et je crains fort de vous aimer un peu plus que je ne devrais.
VALÈRE.- Hé que pouvez-vous craindre, Élise, dans les bontés que vous avez pour moi ?
ÉLISE.- Hélas ! cent choses à la fois : l’emportement d’un père ; les reproches d’une famille ; les censures du monde ; mais plus que tout, Valère, le changement de votre cœur ; et cette froideur criminelle dont ceux de votre sexe payent le plus souvent les témoignages trop ardents d’une innocente amour.
VALÈRE.- Ah ! ne me faites pas ce tort, de juger de moi par les autres. Soupçonnez-moi de tout, Élise, plutôt que de manquer à ce que je vous dois. Je vous aime trop pour cela ; et mon amour pour vous, durera autant que ma vie.
ÉLISE.- Ah ! Valère, chacun tient les mêmes discours. Tous les hommes sont semblables par les paroles ; et ce n’est que les actions, qui les découvrent [3] différents.


Looks a lot better too ! When I was in school we had to read them, the teacher would explain some words and grammatical structure to us but the rest was OK, it just sounded like some stuck up people were speaking, is all lol.
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Old 11-10-2015, 02:01 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,876 posts, read 38,019,680 times
Reputation: 11645
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ- View Post
Yes, French of this era was already more understandable. Like this little sample of L'Avare.

VALÈRE.- Hé quoi, charmante Élise, vous devenez mélancolique, après les obligeantes assurances que vous avez eu la bonté de me donner de votre foi ? Je vous vois soupirer, hélas, au milieu de ma joie ! Est-ce du regret, dites-moi, de m’avoir fait heureux ? et vous repentez-vous de cet engagement où mes feux ont pu vous contraindre [1] ?
ÉLISE.- Non, Valère, je ne puis pas me repentir de tout ce que je fais pour vous. Je m’y sens entraîner par une trop douce puissance, et je n’ai pas même la force de souhaiter que les choses ne fussent pas. Mais, à vous dire vrai, le succès [2] me donne de l’inquiétude ; et je crains fort de vous aimer un peu plus que je ne devrais.
VALÈRE.- Hé que pouvez-vous craindre, Élise, dans les bontés que vous avez pour moi ?
ÉLISE.- Hélas ! cent choses à la fois : l’emportement d’un père ; les reproches d’une famille ; les censures du monde ; mais plus que tout, Valère, le changement de votre cœur ; et cette froideur criminelle dont ceux de votre sexe payent le plus souvent les témoignages trop ardents d’une innocente amour.
VALÈRE.- Ah ! ne me faites pas ce tort, de juger de moi par les autres. Soupçonnez-moi de tout, Élise, plutôt que de manquer à ce que je vous dois. Je vous aime trop pour cela ; et mon amour pour vous, durera autant que ma vie.
ÉLISE.- Ah ! Valère, chacun tient les mêmes discours. Tous les hommes sont semblables par les paroles ; et ce n’est que les actions, qui les découvrent [3] différents.


Looks a lot better too ! When I was in school we had to read them, the teacher would explain some words and grammatical structure to us but the rest was OK, it just sounded like some stuck up people were speaking, is all lol.
I still remember the monologue by Harpagon in L'Avare that I had to memorize in high school:

Au voleur, au voleur, à l'assassin, au meurtrier! Justice! Juste ciel! Je suis perdu! Je suis assassiné. On m'a coupé la gorge, on m'a dérobé mon argent! Etc.
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Old 11-11-2015, 05:28 AM
 
922 posts, read 806,421 times
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In China everyone has to learn/memorize Old Chinese, ancient Confucius stuff.
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Old 11-11-2015, 07:20 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,954,125 times
Reputation: 36644
Yes, I speak Orwellian Oldspeak American English. Some examples of Newspeak words and the Oldspeak I still use:

Attendance Center -- School
Correctional Institution -- Jail
Medical Health Plaza -- Hospital
Sanitary Landfill -- Dump
Law Enforcement Officer -- Cop.
Retail Outlet -- shop
Render -- Torture
Peace -- War.
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