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Old 03-11-2016, 06:57 AM
 
Location: South Jersey
14,497 posts, read 9,481,247 times
Reputation: 5251

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yanagisawa View Post
There is a thread titled: Do you think native English speakers are at a disadvantage to learning foreign languages?

On top of that, English itself could be their weakness: Why native English speakers fail to be understood in English – and lose out in global business
And now ironically, there is mounting evidence that in international business, native English speakers are failing to integrate as a result of their shortcomings when it comes to tailoring their English for this context. When it comes to English – the international language not only for business but also higher education and cross-border collaboration – research shows that, far from being able to rest on their laurels, native speakers are not masters of the world’s global language.

Speakers who have English as their mother tongue can find themselves in a baffling predicament. While at home they are persuaded that the rest of the world now speaks their lingo, abroad they discover that their own English renders them incomprehensible to colleagues and business partners. In one piece of research into English as a the world’s corporate language, a British expat in Scandinavia recounted:

When I started [in Denmark] I spoke I guess as I normally had done and wrote as I normally had done and people weren’t getting me, they weren’t understanding.
So native English speakers should learn another kind of English now
Odd because Danes, like other Scandinavians, are often quite fluent in English.
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Old 03-11-2016, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Minsk, Belarus
667 posts, read 944,786 times
Reputation: 590
I usually easily understand native English speakers when they talk to me.
If they talk to each other, it might be more difficult. They may use too much slang, speak too fast or slur their words.. especially when you don't know the context, it might be hard to follow.
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Old 03-12-2016, 08:52 AM
 
338 posts, read 336,657 times
Reputation: 162
So instead of "would you kindly take this candle from me" now we say "You no take candle me!". The transition to Indonesian a la western is soon to be done.
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Old 03-13-2016, 10:26 AM
 
1,600 posts, read 1,899,717 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahhammer View Post
So instead of "would you kindly take this candle from me" now we say "You no take candle me!". The transition to Indonesian a la western is soon to be done.
Weren't you the one hating the 'intricacies and complications' of other European languages such as Italian verbs, Russian cases and prepositions or German genders?
Now you should rejoice.
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Old 03-20-2016, 02:37 AM
 
338 posts, read 336,657 times
Reputation: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by xander.XVII View Post
Weren't you the one hating the 'intricacies and complications' of other European languages such as Italian verbs, Russian cases and prepositions or German genders?
Now you should rejoice.
Well, I never said anything about Italian verbs, German gender I now realize is more of an overt marking of hidden "meaning". A test showed that native English speakers assigned gender to animals almost identically to German and while inanimate objects were different than German there was at least 90% consistency for gender assigned to 11 out of 20 common objects. When given a made up word, German speakers frequently agreed on what gender it should take. It's culturally chosen it seems. You are correct about this one this time.

Now, the problem is that Russian is too irregular. Sanskrit has more cases and a dual number plus fives times as many verb forms but they are easier to learn since they are systematic and no prepositions, just cases and adverbs.

The other problem is that westerns (non-anglics) vastly overestimate the required intelligence to speak one of their languages. I remember a newsstory about a mentally impaired Polish man, I then realized that even a person with below average intelligence can speak Polish fine, it does not require better deeper thoughts but just forcibly memorizing irregularities. It is ironic considering the average IQ has no correlation to grammatical complexity of a countries language, in fact Asian countries score higher than western countries showing the opposite could be true. I recall some youtube comment from an Argentinian fellow posting that Americans and British are too stupid to conjugate and they are "retarded" and getting 50 upvotes among 1000 other posts like that mentioning their respective language "lol learn Hungarian" "lol try dutch it's so awesome" etc., also unsurprisingly he made no mention of any Southeast Asian languages at all double standards an all. He never replied to my post on why what he said is crap. Ah well.

Last edited by Mahhammer; 03-20-2016 at 03:38 AM..
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Old 03-20-2016, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Østenfor sol og vestenfor måne
17,916 posts, read 24,504,395 times
Reputation: 39045
Short of highly dialectal/slangy vernacular or obtusely florid speech, most English spoken in the world is pretty gramatically standard. The notion that some sort of International English Business cant is leaving native speakers at a disadvantage is ridiculous.

The article's author, an academic in the field of linguistics or communication is probably an outlier in his own speech and finds that the unwashed masses don't understand him so he came up with this outline of a hypothesis while drunk and thought, "I could make a few quid writing a puff piece on this idea". Which I might add is only supported by a number of stereotypical anecdotes and no citations of real data except for a nebulous statement of "there is mounting evidence".

The article does make a good point that idiomatic expressions are problematic when communicating with non-native speakers, but the idea that Danes can't comprehend spoken English is not born out in reality. Unless the Englishman in question said, "Dafuq, m8! I was nippin to the bog but I had to much gold and tripped down the apples, innit?"

Last edited by ABQConvict; 03-20-2016 at 10:11 AM..
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Old 03-23-2016, 09:11 AM
 
338 posts, read 336,657 times
Reputation: 162
Housee go I, readu, possibuleh heara cleara can aguree you and odera man man fivu-ten fivu-ten correkutu.
Thinku whatu now? Be okay thing notu okay thing thinku you peruson groupu? Englisu Riau Indonesiianu lateru turun futuru quicku quicku tzap tzap.

(Only a century from becoming like Cambodian, Lao, or Indonesian I swear to almighty zeus! But I agree it may not be foreigners doing this, I suspect natives are doing this then)
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Old 03-23-2016, 09:15 AM
 
Location: South Jersey
14,497 posts, read 9,481,247 times
Reputation: 5251
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQConvict View Post
Short of highly dialectal/slangy vernacular or obtusely florid speech, most English spoken in the world is pretty gramatically standard. The notion that some sort of International English Business cant is leaving native speakers at a disadvantage is ridiculous.

The article's author, an academic in the field of linguistics or communication is probably an outlier in his own speech and finds that the unwashed masses don't understand him so he came up with this outline of a hypothesis while drunk and thought, "I could make a few quid writing a puff piece on this idea". Which I might add is only supported by a number of stereotypical anecdotes and no citations of real data except for a nebulous statement of "there is mounting evidence".

The article does make a good point that idiomatic expressions are problematic when communicating with non-native speakers, but the idea that Danes can't comprehend spoken English is not born out in reality. Unless the Englishman in question said, "Dafuq, m8! I was nippin to the bog but I had to much gold and tripped down the apples, innit?"
LOL. Well said.
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Old 03-26-2016, 02:34 PM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,816 posts, read 34,857,545 times
Reputation: 10257
There's British English & North American English. Depending on where a person is, in a nonEnglish speaking country, fluency can vary depending on which of the 2 main forms of English was learned & which of the main forms of English the native English speaker speaks.

I had a conversation with a British military couple & a native of the Eifel region of Germany one evening. They asked why North Americans were better at understanding & being understood by nonEnglish speakers. This contrasted with a conversation with a man from northern England who went off on the stupidity of Americans for not speaking The Queen's English. Then there was the Flemish shopkeeper who drew a correlation between Flemish & Dutch with British English & North American English.

It's imperative for English speakers to attempt to eliminate colloquial expressions.
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Old 03-26-2016, 08:47 PM
 
338 posts, read 336,657 times
Reputation: 162
Further evidence of "breakdown" in English is transitivity:
Shoot a gun
Shoot a bullet
Shoot a guy

in German this would have to be something like

Shoot out of a gun
Shoot with a bullet
Shoot a guy

Not yet has it reached Laotian or Cambodian levels with:
Lady too heavy bag: The bag is too heavy for the lady.
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