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Old 03-26-2016, 09:09 PM
 
919 posts, read 841,516 times
Reputation: 373

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahhammer View Post
Further evidence of "breakdown" in English is transitivity:
Shoot a gun
Shoot a bullet
Shoot a guy

in German this would have to be something like

Shoot out of a gun
Shoot with a bullet
Shoot a guy

Not yet has it reached Laotian or Cambodian levels with:
Lady too heavy bag: The bag is too heavy for the lady.
Interesting!

German is heavily depend on speakers to process the sentences, and Lao is listeners.
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Old 03-27-2016, 07:13 AM
 
Location: SE UK
14,822 posts, read 12,054,383 times
Reputation: 9813
Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295 View Post
There's British English & North American English. Depending on where a person is, in a nonEnglish speaking country, fluency can vary depending on which of the 2 main forms of English was learned & which of the main forms of English the native English speaker speaks.

I had a conversation with a British military couple & a native of the Eifel region of Germany one evening. They asked why North Americans were better at understanding & being understood by nonEnglish speakers. This contrasted with a conversation with a man from northern England who went off on the stupidity of Americans for not speaking The Queen's English. Then there was the Flemish shopkeeper who drew a correlation between Flemish & Dutch with British English & North American English.

It's imperative for English speakers to attempt to eliminate colloquial expressions.
There is no such thing as 'American English' this is just something Americans say to try and claim the language, there is also no such thing as 'Australian English', New Zealand English', 'Irish English' or even 'British English'! The language spoken by all of these countries inhabitants is practically identical!! There are only regional accents (if you think the English spoken between somebody from Newcastle and London is closer than that spoken by somebody from Boston or London you are VERY much mistaken) and a few local 'slang' words that differ, the language is the same.
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Old 03-27-2016, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Østenfor sol og vestenfor måne
17,916 posts, read 24,395,081 times
Reputation: 39038
Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome View Post
There is no such thing as 'American English' this is just something Americans say to try and claim the language, there is also no such thing as 'Australian English', New Zealand English', 'Irish English' or even 'British English'! The language spoken by all of these countries inhabitants is practically identical!! There are only regional accents (if you think the English spoken between somebody from Newcastle and London is closer than that spoken by somebody from Boston or London you are VERY much mistaken) and a few local 'slang' words that differ, the language is the same.
I totally agree. There is more variation between dialects within Britain or America than there is between the standard English spoken in all of the English speaking countries.

For example, when I studied in England, most British and American students understood each other just fine, but we all had trouble understanding the few students, British and American, who spoke deviant dialects regardless of their country of origin.

In other words, some Geordies, Texans, and Australians may be less intelligble to your average Brit or American than the latter are to each other.
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Old 03-27-2016, 12:06 PM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,729,034 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome View Post
There is no such thing as 'American English' this is just something Americans say to try and claim the language, there is also no such thing as 'Australian English', New Zealand English', 'Irish English' or even 'British English'! The language spoken by all of these countries inhabitants is practically identical!! There are only regional accents (if you think the English spoken between somebody from Newcastle and London is closer than that spoken by somebody from Boston or London you are VERY much mistaken) and a few local 'slang' words that differ, the language is the same.
You don't have to agree.I simply stated parts of 3 conversations that I had on one trip & comments made by Europeans. So, basically, you are disagreeing with views stated to me by Europeans. Good to know that you didn't understand that. Apparently some of their views were correct. There must be more of a difference than I thought.
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Old 03-27-2016, 09:21 PM
 
919 posts, read 841,516 times
Reputation: 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295 View Post
You don't have to agree.I simply stated parts of 3 conversations that I had on one trip & comments made by Europeans. So, basically, you are disagreeing with views stated to me by Europeans. Good to know that you didn't understand that. Apparently some of their views were correct. There must be more of a difference than I thought.
Well said.

The fact that easthome and ABQConvict, who are native English speakers I suppose, think all English is same , somewhat proves: the Why native English speakers fail to be understood in English – and lose out in global business.
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Old 03-27-2016, 11:07 PM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,729,034 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yanagisawa View Post
Well said.

The fact that easthome and ABQConvict, who are native English speakers I suppose, think all English is same , somewhat proves: the Why native English speakers fail to be understood in English – and lose out in global business.
I'm a baby boomer, born & raised in the US. I had an immigrant grandfather. Many of my friends had one or more immigrant grandparents. We grew up knowing that not all slang was understood by the older extended family who had immigrated & we were taught to be respectful & listen & reason out what wasn't obvious.

I've traveled in the Eifel, where I am never mistaken for an American. I am usually approached in the local Dialekt. I listen carefully, as I was brought up to do. I haven't traveled on business in Europe, but have no doubt that I would be successful. I've had wonderful discussions with wonderful, charming people from the Eifel, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, & France. I found that my luck conversing with the British was mixed. The difference wasn't with me.
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Old 03-28-2016, 12:43 AM
 
Location: Metro Phoenix
11,039 posts, read 16,884,916 times
Reputation: 12950
Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome View Post
There is no such thing as 'American English' this is just something Americans say to try and claim the language, there is also no such thing as 'Australian English', New Zealand English', 'Irish English' or even 'British English'! The language spoken by all of these countries inhabitants is practically identical!! There are only regional accents (if you think the English spoken between somebody from Newcastle and London is closer than that spoken by somebody from Boston or London you are VERY much mistaken) and a few local 'slang' words that differ, the language is the same.
Damndest thing though, I've heard English folks mock Americans for speaking "American English" (said with a mock-outraged sneer). Ironically, you would be hard pressed to actually find, in real life, an American who actually wants or cares to claim the language for America. We all know it's from England and are more or less indifferent.

You are correct though that these are simply regional variations on the same language, though there are enough variations in these dialects to be noteworthy, and it can have an effect on daily life.

Now, as an expat living in a non-English speaking country, perhaps I can shed some further light on the matter... I have a pretty neutral, West Coast American accent, and in addition to that, I grew up in immigrant heavy areas and am used to changing my tone, speed, and inflection for a non native speaker. If I am speaking to a non-native English speaker, be they Chinese, Russian, Colombian, Arab, whatever, I rarely have a problem being understood as long as they have adequate grammar. Most people from large swaths of US and Canada have no issues, and neither do people from urban UK, South Africa or Australia. Usually, people with extreme regional accents such as Southern US, rural Australia, northern England, etc have a harder time. People from the Northeast US who drop their "R's" are at a disadvantage, too; to a non-native speaker who hasn't had much immersion or exposure to native speakers, if they hear a guy talking about his "cah" they may draw a blank because they were taught that "car" ends in a pronounced "R" sound.

I have a few friends here from Scotland, Ireland, and Northern England whom I have to translate for in social situations with non-native speakers. I am frequently told by Chinese people as well as people from other parts of the world, "I understand Americans [Canadians are generally assumed to be Americans] more easily than English or Australians." There is a general preference for English teachers in China and other parts of Asia from America and Canada because of the neutral accent - the general attitude is that it's best to learn the neutral variation rather than a more specific one. Many English or Aussie teachers I know are occasionally asked to sound "more like an American" or fake an "American accent" when teaching.

Obviously, in places like India, HK, Kenya, etc who have a British colonialist past and already have a history and infrastructure centered around Queen's English, things are different. But to the rest of the world who are adopting English simply because of its status as the global lingua franca, with no historical preference or allegiance, practicality is the bigger concern, and people have decided that "neutral" is more practical than "traditional."
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Old 03-28-2016, 12:57 AM
 
Location: Metro Phoenix
11,039 posts, read 16,884,916 times
Reputation: 12950
*deep breath*

Now, as far as native disadvantages go... As i mentioned above, having grown up around immigrants from different regions of the world, I have no problem changing my manner of speech for people to understand me better, nor do i have a problem deciphering accented or poor English. Anyone who has similar experience interacting with immigrants or foreign folks from any other English speaking nation should have an issue either. People at a disadvantage are ones who have never learned how to communicate with non-native speakers.
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Old 03-28-2016, 04:08 AM
 
Location: SE UK
14,822 posts, read 12,054,383 times
Reputation: 9813
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yanagisawa View Post
Well said.

The fact that easthome and ABQConvict, who are native English speakers I suppose, think all English is same , somewhat proves: the Why native English speakers fail to be understood in English – and lose out in global business.
Really? Now say what you have just posted, but this time I want it said first in 'American English', then in 'British English' and then in 'Australian English', lets see these completely different languages written down in their respective words and grammer.
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Old 03-28-2016, 04:16 AM
 
Location: SE UK
14,822 posts, read 12,054,383 times
Reputation: 9813
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
Damndest thing though, I've heard English folks mock Americans for speaking "American English" (said with a mock-outraged sneer). Ironically, you would be hard pressed to actually find, in real life, an American who actually wants or cares to claim the language for America. We all know it's from England and are more or less indifferent.

You are correct though that these are simply regional variations on the same language, though there are enough variations in these dialects to be noteworthy, and it can have an effect on daily life.

Now, as an expat living in a non-English speaking country, perhaps I can shed some further light on the matter... I have a pretty neutral, West Coast American accent, and in addition to that, I grew up in immigrant heavy areas and am used to changing my tone, speed, and inflection for a non native speaker. If I am speaking to a non-native English speaker, be they Chinese, Russian, Colombian, Arab, whatever, I rarely have a problem being understood as long as they have adequate grammar. Most people from large swaths of US and Canada have no issues, and neither do people from urban UK, South Africa or Australia. Usually, people with extreme regional accents such as Southern US, rural Australia, northern England, etc have a harder time. People from the Northeast US who drop their "R's" are at a disadvantage, too; to a non-native speaker who hasn't had much immersion or exposure to native speakers, if they hear a guy talking about his "cah" they may draw a blank because they were taught that "car" ends in a pronounced "R" sound.

I have a few friends here from Scotland, Ireland, and Northern England whom I have to translate for in social situations with non-native speakers. I am frequently told by Chinese people as well as people from other parts of the world, "I understand Americans [Canadians are generally assumed to be Americans] more easily than English or Australians." There is a general preference for English teachers in China and other parts of Asia from America and Canada because of the neutral accent - the general attitude is that it's best to learn the neutral variation rather than a more specific one. Many English or Aussie teachers I know are occasionally asked to sound "more like an American" or fake an "American accent" when teaching.

Obviously, in places like India, HK, Kenya, etc who have a British colonialist past and already have a history and infrastructure centered around Queen's English, things are different. But to the rest of the world who are adopting English simply because of its status as the global lingua franca, with no historical preference or allegiance, practicality is the bigger concern, and people have decided that "neutral" is more practical than "traditional."

I agree, apart from the 'neutral accent' bit, we all think our accents and the accents of the people around us as 'neutral' when in reality they are no more 'neutral' than any other English speakers accent. To me you will have a strong American accent whereas my own would be 'neutral'. I remember once being asked by an American tourist how we pronounced the name of our hometown Westerham (pronounced Westram) to which she replied 'ah West er ham boy I wish I had an accent!' in the most southern of southern American accents! Did make us laugh.
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