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Old 03-28-2016, 04:56 AM
 
338 posts, read 335,384 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yanagisawa View Post
Interesting!

German is heavily depend on speakers to process the sentences, and Lao is listeners.
http://userpage.fu-berlin.de/~gast/s...df/swl-117.pdf

Some guy posted this once on reddit. Was browsing and saw it. It may explain your theory well, but English as a western language become pragmatically orientated would not fit with its brethren. Cambodian and Lao have their side of the world.
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Old 03-28-2016, 05:02 AM
 
919 posts, read 841,000 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
I have a few friends here from Scotland, Ireland, and Northern England whom I have to translate for in social situations with non-native speakers. I am frequently told by Chinese people as well as people from other parts of the world, "I understand Americans [Canadians are generally assumed to be Americans] more easily than English or Australians."
That's true. I had a hard time reading papers written by English when I was a student. American English is way easier to understand.


Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome View Post
Really? Now say what you have just posted, but this time I want it said first in 'American English', then in 'British English' and then in 'Australian English', lets see these completely different languages written down in their respective words and grammer.
Off topic but there is little mutual intelligibility between Beijing Mandarin and Cantonese. Still, we tend to think Cantonese is a dialect.

Russian, Belarussian and Ukranian are three different languages in spite of the mutual intelligibility.

IMO, politics determines whether it is a language or a dialect.
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Old 03-28-2016, 05:18 AM
 
919 posts, read 841,000 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahhammer View Post
http://userpage.fu-berlin.de/~gast/s...df/swl-117.pdf

Some guy posted this once on reddit. Was browsing and saw it. It may explain your theory well, but English as a western language become pragmatically orientated would not fit with its brethren. Cambodian and Lao have their side of the world.
Yes, English sits somewhere in between Cambodian and German.

It would be easier for me to learn Lao-type languages as I'm good at decoding
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Old 03-28-2016, 12:07 PM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,711,256 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome View Post
Really? Now say what you have just posted, but this time I want it said first in 'American English', then in 'British English' and then in 'Australian English', lets see these completely different languages written down in their respective words and grammer.
Can individuals from North America have generic conversations with individuals from places where the Queen's English is spoken? Of course. However there has been an infusion of words from other languages into North American English that will create bumps in the road. However, I sincerely doubt that you have ever attempted to use recipes intended for US cooks. That's an area where the divergence of the language is in your face.
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Old 03-28-2016, 01:09 PM
 
Location: Finland
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The issue with British and American English is the same as with Swedish and Finnish Swedish. Or cosmopolitan French and Quebécois French. Some words, loanwords and phrases alien to the counterpart. But it is still the same language.
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Old 03-28-2016, 01:42 PM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
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Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
The issue with British and American English is the same as with Swedish and Finnish Swedish. Or cosmopolitan French and Quebécois French. Some words, loanwords and phrases alien to the counterpart. But it is still the same language.
Yes, North American French is not the same as Continental French. Western hemisphere Spanish is different from Continental Spanish. Pennsylvania German is somewhat frozen in the 18th century (& it's a dialect) to name a few examples. Anyone who thinks that different loan words over 2 or 3 centuries don't exist is having a delusion.

The original concept wasn't whether there were several versions of English but whether English speakers have problems when dealing with people who speak English as a 2nd or 3rd language. I think that native English speakers who assume that others will understand them automatically are at a disadvantage. These are people who probably are not self-censoring. Good grief, there are simple English terms that are vulgar to people in Great Britain that are not vulgar in the US & the same goes for the other way.
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Old 03-29-2016, 12:21 AM
 
1,475 posts, read 1,347,983 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yanagisawa View Post
T
[indent]And now ironically, there is mounting evidence that in international business, native English speakers are failing to integrate as a result of their shortcomings when it comes to tailoring their English for this context. When it comes to English – the international language not only for business but also higher education and cross-border collaboration – research shows that, far from being able to rest on their laurels, native speakers are not masters of the world’s global language.
Perhaps because native English speakers are much more likely to use colloquial English rather than formal, text book English, or a least use a mix of the them. There can be major differences between the two. For example to an Australian "how cold was it this morning" can be a statement, quite distinct from the question "how cold was it this morning?". Context and tonality indicate which meaning is intended, which a non native speaker may find difficult.

Last edited by Bakery Hill; 03-29-2016 at 01:20 AM..
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Old 03-29-2016, 02:27 AM
 
Location: SE UK
14,820 posts, read 12,041,416 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yanagisawa View Post
That's true. I had a hard time reading papers written by English when I was a student. American English is way easier to understand.




Off topic but there is little mutual intelligibility between Beijing Mandarin and Cantonese. Still, we tend to think Cantonese is a dialect.

Russian, Belarussian and Ukranian are three different languages in spite of the mutual intelligibility.

IMO, politics determines whether it is a language or a dialect.
This is nonsense, the written language is identical!!!! Please show examples if you can! and firs I want you to re-write exactly what you said here, first in this supposed 'American English' and then again but this time in this supposed 'British English'!! THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AMERICAN ENGLISH! :-)
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Old 03-29-2016, 07:20 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,883 posts, read 38,065,890 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bakery Hill View Post
Perhaps because native English speakers are much more likely to use colloquial English rather than formal, text book English, or a least use a mix of the them. There can be major differences between the two. For example to an Australian "how cold was it this morning" can be a statement, quite distinct from the question "how cold was it this morning?". Context and tonality indicate which meaning is intended, which a non native speaker may find difficult.
As the poster above you said, I think many native English speakers don't self-censor when speaking to non-natives.


I am OK with most of the colloquialisms and the "ins", but many people are not. And I've noticed that some English speakers, as soon as they detect some measure of proficiency, will instantly switch to a type of speech that they'd use with a compatriot.


So they might drop references about Saturday Night Live sketches to a bilingual Swede in Malmo or stuff like "I'm from Alabama... y'know... Bear Bryant country..." to a guy in Hong Kong who speaks "financial English" only...
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Old 03-29-2016, 08:17 AM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,711,256 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome View Post
This is nonsense, the written language is identical!!!! Please show examples if you can! and firs I want you to re-write exactly what you said here, first in this supposed 'American English' and then again but this time in this supposed 'British English'!! THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AMERICAN ENGLISH! :-)
You really are oblivious, aren't you.

Try this scenario.

Jack & Mary paddled their canoe down the river to a breakfast potluck. They took zucchini bread. John & Marsha took sandwiches that were strips of bacon & scrambled eggs in biscuits. Others brought homemade cookies and the hosts provided french toast sprinkled with powdered sugar. John & Marsha arrived in their car. John had just polished the hood that morning. He had to wash off the bird hockey. When Jack & Mary got to their destination Mary was anxious to borrow the restroom.

There are landmines in that for a native speaker of British English. It's a disaster for someone who learned British English as a 2nd or 3rd language.

Last edited by southbound_295; 03-29-2016 at 08:29 AM..
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