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Old 03-31-2016, 09:06 AM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,735,995 times
Reputation: 10256

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Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome View Post
Please give me an example of how somebody would 'miss out on business' because they are from Boston instead of Kent? I'm sorry, the nature of my business means I speak to people from across the globe on a daily basis, always in my native tongue too and I have never been misunderstood by fellow English speakers from other English speaking countries and I have never suffered problems with non English speakers because I don't speak the right kind of 'English'! Not ever, and I have been in the same job now since 2007.
I think that I'm safe in assuming that you are probably about 30. Your experience is perfectly valid for you. You seem oblivious that your coworkers from other English-speaking areas & nonEnglish speaking areas are making the accommodations. You may very well feel invincible in the language war, but you are in a bubble of safety. Not all business dealings are what you experience. Not everyone dealing with these experiences is from your generation.

My father was an American (US ) GI who was stationed in England during WWII before being sent, with his group in the US army, to North Africa. Americans accompanied Montgomery in that phase of the war. When the first actual English TV program to air in the US started airing (Monty Python's Flying Circus), my generation ended up functioning as the translators for our parents. When the British rock groups first started touring in the US, magazines published translation lists after the interviews.

Another poster brought up Indian call centers. They are infamous & widely hated in the US. Frequently, neither party knows what the other person is talking about. Some companies had to put smaller call centers in the US to transfer the caller to when communications break down completely. Yeah, of course there is no difference.
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Old 03-31-2016, 09:33 AM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,735,995 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Well, English may be a lingua franca, but people should not forget that except for a few countries it will never be more than a foreign language, be it in Europe, in Asia or wherever. People learn English from 5th grade on usually, but it is a kind of official English that is useful for understanding newspapers etc. Those who really care about English might study literature etc. later on at college, but of course hardly anyone does because there are few jobs in that area. I know people who can read scientific literature in English, but can't have a normal conversation in English because most of what goes beyond mere objective content is missing. People in Asia or Europe don't care about the details of life etc. in Britain or the US or Australia, hence they don't know. When people have something subtle and meaningful to express, they will always prefer their native languages.

Another aspect is that there are different types of English to begin with. Indian English is quite different from American English and really a challenge. Indian call centers are infamous for a reason
The last Dell computer that I bought came with a standard component rather than the upgrade that I ordered & paid for. Neither the Indian person who took my call nor his supervisor could understand my problem. The supervisor finally transferred me back to the US where I was understood immediately. That individual ordered the part & told me that when the card came to call the number & ask to speak with an American who would talk me through the installation.
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Old 03-31-2016, 09:53 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,780,801 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295 View Post
The last Dell computer that I bought came with a standard component rather than the upgrade that I ordered & paid for. Neither the Indian person who took my call nor his supervisor could understand my problem. The supervisor finally transferred me back to the US where I was understood immediately. That individual ordered the part & told me that when the card came to call the number & ask to speak with an American who would talk me through the installation.
Was it a linguistic problem or did they simply pretend not to understand you in order to keep you from bugging them because of such a technical issue, which might seem absurd to Indians where poverty is still widespread and our complaints often seem absurd. They might have thought to themselves, gee, your computer works, doesn't it, so shut up I live in a foreign country and I have noticed that people here are less perfectionist than where I come from. They put up with things that people in my country would not put up with, simply because they have other problems and priorities.

A friend of mine is Indian, from the South, so even Hindi is a foreign language to her. Her English is OK, though, but I do have problems understanding her, especially when we talk.

What I also noticed is that Indians don't seem to pay much attention to spelling, capitalization, punctuation and those things, it often reads rather sloppy and chaotic in my view. Then again, not only is English a foreign language to Indians, it is not even written in one of their alphabets, I doubt they could understand my Tamil or Hindi
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Old 03-31-2016, 11:08 AM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,735,995 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Was it a linguistic problem or did they simply pretend not to understand you in order to keep you from bugging them because of such a technical issue, which might seem absurd to Indians where poverty is still widespread and our complaints often seem absurd. They might have thought to themselves, gee, your computer works, doesn't it, so shut up I live in a foreign country and I have noticed that people here are less perfectionist than where I come from. They put up with things that people in my country would not put up with, simply because they have other problems and priorities.

A friend of mine is Indian, from the South, so even Hindi is a foreign language to her. Her English is OK, though, but I do have problems understanding her, especially when we talk.

What I also noticed is that Indians don't seem to pay much attention to spelling, capitalization, punctuation and those things, it often reads rather sloppy and chaotic in my view. Then again, not only is English a foreign language to Indians, it is not even written in one of their alphabets, I doubt they could understand my Tamil or Hindi
Neither person comprehended that I paid for one thing & got something of lesser value. My neighbor's wife was the granddaughter of Indian immigrants & she, too, had problems with the Indian call centers.
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Old 03-31-2016, 09:06 PM
 
919 posts, read 841,615 times
Reputation: 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome View Post
You haven't given any examples here of any 'American English' words, just English words!! Where is this 'American language' that I would fail to understand?
OK. I understand what you mean. It is all about its name.

According to your claim, sea horse must be a horse.
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Old 04-01-2016, 12:17 AM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,735,995 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome View Post
Please give me an example of how somebody would 'miss out on business' because they are from Boston instead of Kent? I'm sorry, the nature of my business means I speak to people from across the globe on a daily basis, always in my native tongue too and I have never been misunderstood by fellow English speakers from other English speaking countries and I have never suffered problems with non English speakers because I don't speak the right kind of 'English'! Not ever, and I have been in the same job now since 2007.
Okey dokie. You want American, you're going to get American.

Bill woke up psyched. It was Saturday & it was his department's turn to have the company box at the ballpark. He went to the kitchen & grabbed a poptart. No sense in eating a big breakfast since the company was going to cover the food at the game.

He put on a good t-shirt & jeans & his best sneakers because he knew the girls wouldn't be looking skanky.

He grabbed his ticket & locked up the apartment. He headed down the street for the subway. When he got to the park some of the neighborhood kids were playing pick up. There was a court for them to play hoops.

He got to the subway, went down & bought his ticket & hopped on the train that was headed to the ballpark.

When he got to the ballpark he found the others from his department. They decided that since they would be running a tab they'd limit themselves to one brew. Everyone got a can of soda & decided to scope out the vendors to see what their choices were. They all decided to get burgers & hot dogs to start. Most of them got the dogs with the works. As they finished the sodas, they looked for recycle buckets but couldn't resist crushing the aluminum cans before they threw them away.

That's enough. My apologies to people who aren't familiar with casual American English.
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Old 04-01-2016, 04:59 AM
 
Location: SE UK
14,822 posts, read 12,058,630 times
Reputation: 9818
Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295 View Post
I think that I'm safe in assuming that you are probably about 30. Your experience is perfectly valid for you. You seem oblivious that your coworkers from other English-speaking areas & nonEnglish speaking areas are making the accommodations. You may very well feel invincible in the language war, but you are in a bubble of safety. Not all business dealings are what you experience. Not everyone dealing with these experiences is from your generation.

My father was an American (US ) GI who was stationed in England during WWII before being sent, with his group in the US army, to North Africa. Americans accompanied Montgomery in that phase of the war. When the first actual English TV program to air in the US started airing (Monty Python's Flying Circus), my generation ended up functioning as the translators for our parents. When the British rock groups first started touring in the US, magazines published translation lists after the interviews.

Another poster brought up Indian call centers. They are infamous & widely hated in the US. Frequently, neither party knows what the other person is talking about. Some companies had to put smaller call centers in the US to transfer the caller to when communications break down completely. Yeah, of course there is no difference.
This has NOTHING to do with the words being used but the accents of the people using them, you will find that the workers in these call centres are using identical words, nobody is claiming that everybody speaks the exact same way, different pronunciation and accents does not equal a different language!
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Old 04-01-2016, 05:03 AM
 
1,600 posts, read 1,892,563 times
Reputation: 2066
English has no dialects, it has accents, which is a completely different things.
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Old 04-01-2016, 05:08 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,780,801 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by xander.XVII View Post
English has no dialects, it has accents, which is a completely different things.
That is flat wrong...
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Old 04-01-2016, 09:15 AM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,735,995 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome View Post
This has NOTHING to do with the words being used but the accents of the people using them, you will find that the workers in these call centres are using identical words, nobody is claiming that everybody speaks the exact same way, different pronunciation and accents does not equal a different language!
Didn't say it was a separate language.
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