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Old 09-16-2016, 10:03 AM
 
11,604 posts, read 7,640,608 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
I am not so sure that now it's "immensely more difficult and more challenging" ...looking at that Korbut's memorable performance I think that in fact it was more difficult, more unique and impossible to beat. So the only way out of it was to switch the arrangements all together, lol.
Korbut's was the most innovative bars routine of the 1972 Olympics; I agree with you there.* She did not win the gold (she got silver) because of some flaws in her technique. But again, I think you are looking through rose-colored glasses when you imply her routine was the best of all time. It may be YOUR favorite and many people's favorite, and Korbut was very charismatic. But no gymnast today much less Korbut herself would say her routine was the most difficult ever, and Comaneci for example was a far more technically perfect gymnast.

The nature of gymnasts is to strive to do more difficult and technical skills. Gymnastics today is objectively more difficult than gymnastics of the 1970s. Even to a layman, it is obvious that a single flip is not as hard as a double flip with a twist, or that it is harder to release and regrasp bars that are very far apart than bars that are very close together. Tell a gymnast from the 1970s or 80s that their bars routines were in fact more difficult than the ones being done today, and they will fall apart laughing.

Now, if you say the event is now less ARTISTIC, you have a point. Many people miss the grace and artistry of the older gymnasts. That is one thing that has more or less been lost with the more technical skills.

*(The unique element in Korbut's routine was the standing flip. Otherwise, it was pretty much like everyone else's. The flip was later banned, not because it was too dangerous, as is often claimed, or because it could only be done by Korbut (other gymnasts also performed it), but because the international committee decided that they did not want gymnasts standing on the bars. To this day, standing on a bar and jumping off is not permitted.)
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Old 09-16-2016, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Russia
5,174 posts, read 3,151,070 times
Reputation: 1435
Yes, I like this video (gif):

https://vk.com/doc3331635_437773612?...a57539120aaf83

I think it's very good shows how much has changed of gymnastics over the years.
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Old 09-16-2016, 01:41 PM
 
21,137 posts, read 17,411,729 times
Reputation: 8826
Quote:
Originally Posted by saibot View Post
Korbut's was the most innovative bars routine of the 1972 Olympics; I agree with you there.* She did not win the gold (she got silver) because of some flaws in her technique. But again, I think you are looking through rose-colored glasses when you imply her routine was the best of all time. It may be YOUR favorite and many people's favorite, and Korbut was very charismatic. But no gymnast today much less Korbut herself would say her routine was the most difficult ever, and Comaneci for example was a far more technically perfect gymnast.

The nature of gymnasts is to strive to do more difficult and technical skills. Gymnastics today is objectively more difficult than gymnastics of the 1970s. Even to a layman, it is obvious that a single flip is not as hard as a double flip with a twist, or that it is harder to release and regrasp bars that are very far apart than bars that are very close together. Tell a gymnast from the 1970s or 80s that their bars routines were in fact more difficult than the ones being done today, and they will fall apart laughing.
Now, if you say the event is now less ARTISTIC, you have a point. Many people miss the grace and artistry of the older gymnasts. That is one thing that has more or less been lost with the more technical skills.
You re right - I watched it one more time - it is more complex technically, but it lost the grace and artistry ( that's why I didn't have interest to watch it long enough at the first place.) I think something similar happened to figure skating as well, but I don't watch it often enough lately.

Quote:
*(The unique element in Korbut's routine was the standing flip. Otherwise, it was pretty much like everyone else's. The flip was later banned, not because it was too dangerous, as is often claimed, or because it could only be done by Korbut (other gymnasts also performed it), but because the international committee decided that they did not want gymnasts standing on the bars. To this day, standing on a bar and jumping off is not permitted.)
Oh, I never thought that her performance was the best ever ( they even mention that in the video,) but I thought it was extremely daring and unique because of that particular element, that I find to be very dangerous.
However, the point being, even with current demand for techniques, I don't see that excessive muscle mass is in order comparably to the old routine. But may be Simone Biles just has a really bad build from mother nature to begin with, that's why her muscles are more visible and bulky.
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Old 09-16-2016, 01:47 PM
 
21,137 posts, read 17,411,729 times
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Originally Posted by Maksim_Frolov View Post
Yes, I like this video (gif):

https://vk.com/doc3331635_437773612?...a57539120aaf83

I think it's very good shows how much has changed of gymnastics over the years.
Maxim, but that's 1960.
I'd be more interested to compare it to say 70ies-80ies.
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Old 09-16-2016, 02:00 PM
 
11,604 posts, read 7,640,608 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
You re right - I watched it one more time - it is more complex technically, but it lost the grace and artistry ( that's why I didn't have interest to watch it long enough at the first place.) I think something similar happened to figure skating as well, but I don't watch it often enough lately.
Yes, you're far from the only one to feel this way. As much as people are impressed by the hugely complicated tumbling and other moves, there is a strong feeling that something has been lost.

Quote:
However, the point being, even with current demand for techniques, I don't see that excessive muscle mass is in order comparably to the old routine. But may be Simone Biles just has a really bad build from mother nature to begin with, that's why her muscles are more visible and bulky.
Yes, Biles is short to begin with, and big muscles stand out more on shorter people. You're right, her look is a little more "extreme" than others. But if you compare today's female gymnasts with those from the past, almost all have more noticeable muscles than they used to. I was looking at some photos of female gymnasts from the 1970s and they look like skinny little sticks.

Those power tumbling, vaulting and bars skills that the women do now really generate a huge amount of force and require a lot of strength. It used to be thought that only men had the upper-body strength for many of those skills.
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Old 09-16-2016, 02:04 PM
 
11,604 posts, read 7,640,608 times
Reputation: 30889
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksim_Frolov View Post
Yes, I like this video (gif):

https://vk.com/doc3331635_437773612?...a57539120aaf83

I think it's very good shows how much has changed of gymnastics over the years.
Nice video because it shows how the whole "point" of gymnastics in the old days was to be a graceful, expressive dancer while performing a few basic tumbling skills. Of course, as I said, the sport has been continually evolving and so there is a continuum of increased difficulty all the way up to the present day.
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