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Old 02-01-2017, 12:02 PM
 
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I think this is an interesting discussion since there are areas in many countries of the world that have moments of rebellion and separatist movements. Catalunya in Spain comes to mind and Rio Grande do Sul in Brazil comes to mind too.

I always have this conversation with my husband since in his state (Rio Grande do Sul) there is alot of local pride and talk of separating from the country all the time. What are the prosand the cons?

I think it depends on who you are separating from? Separating from the current aggressive dictatorship style government in the US at this moment would not be a good idea, there would probably be military repression.
Other countries may recognize CA, but then easily forget about it to maintain a 'good' relationship with the US.
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Old 02-01-2017, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Seattle WA, USA
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If the US won't recognize it, then I think most countries won't since it could be interpreted as an act of war and can then receive the wrath of the US by way of regime change or support of separatist movements. The only country that is probably crazy enough to recognize it would probably be North Korea and some other countries that are not recognized by the UN such as Palestine, Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Transnistria etc. However I think several countries might not publicly recognize, but will support California in any way they can while denying it at the same time, such as what Russia is doing in eastern Ukraine. Those countries would probably include Russia, China, Mexico, Iran, Syria, Cuba, Venezuela, Serbia etc. If CA can retain de facto independence for several years then maybe more countries will start to publicly recognize CA.
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Old 02-01-2017, 12:32 PM
 
Location: Finland
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Originally Posted by rosa surf View Post
I think this is an interesting discussion since there are areas in many countries of the world that have moments of rebellion and separatist movements. Catalunya in Spain comes to mind and Rio Grande do Sul in Brazil comes to mind too.

I always have this conversation with my husband since in his state (Rio Grande do Sul) there is alot of local pride and talk of separating from the country all the time. What are the prosand the cons?

I think it depends on who you are separating from? Separating from the current aggressive dictatorship style government in the US at this moment would not be a good idea, there would probably be military repression.
Other countries may recognize CA, but then easily forget about it to maintain a 'good' relationship with the US.
I don't think it is. Secession from the modern US has never been done, and if California wants to secede, there must be a comprehensible legal framework. If the US thinks a secession is unlawful, no Western country will ever recognise it.

The Spanish constitution states that the country is indivisive, and despite any referendum a part of the country (like Catalunya) cannot break off. Therefore no country in Europe won't accept an independent Catalunya. Except Russia.
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Old 02-01-2017, 12:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
I don't think it is. Secession from the modern US has never been done, and if California wants to secede, there must be a comprehensible legal framework. If the US thinks a secession is unlawful, no Western country will ever recognise it.

The Spanish constitution states that the country is indivisive, and despite any referendum a part of the country (like Catalunya) cannot break off. Therefore no country in Europe won't accept an independent Catalunya. Except Russia.
If it is the will of a majority of the people, it could happen regardless of national laws.
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Old 02-01-2017, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Finland
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Originally Posted by rosa surf View Post
If it is the will of a majority of the people, it could happen regardless of national laws.
Sorry, it won't. It's always ultimately decided by the parent country. The stronger the parent country is, the less chance for breaking off.
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Old 02-01-2017, 01:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
Sorry, it won't. It's always ultimately decided by the parent country. The stronger the parent country is, the less chance for breaking off.
Are you in a bad mood again? Lol

It's a hypothetical question and the whole point of the post is to enter into discussion, not shut it down.

California belonged to Spain, then Mexico, then US. It's not completely impossible for it to become independent, regardless of what the parent country establishes or says.

It would nice if we could hear from Spaniards, Catalunyans or people from Quebec about this topic. Or Texans. Lol
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Old 02-01-2017, 02:10 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
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Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
If America doesn't recognise it, no one would; if America does, everyone would.

But if it's the first scenario than it's completely pointless. How do you expect to gain independence? It's simply impossible.
This. The only way California could legally gain independence from the United States is through a constitutional amendment and 3/4 of the states agreeing for it to leave. If California is able to make that happen, then the rest of the world would recognize it. There's no other way for California to gain independence though. It can't do it unilaterally, and it would almost certainly be crushed by the US if warfare broke out.

One thing worth noting though is that a California that does somehow gain independence the legal way quite possibly would not be just like the current state of California. The federal government owns about 48% of the land in the state. California would also have to negotiate resource rights, trade agreements, etc. The state would likely see its economy become stunted since it would have to do everything from scratch. Many companies would likely relocate to the remaining United States rather than staying in California. California would also have no armed forces to speak of.
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Old 02-01-2017, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Finland
24,128 posts, read 24,865,139 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosa surf View Post
Are you in a bad mood again? Lol

It's a hypothetical question and the whole point of the post is to enter into discussion, not shut it down.

California belonged to Spain, then Mexico, then US. It's not completely impossible for it to become independent, regardless of what the parent country establishes or says.

It would nice if we could hear from Spaniards, Catalunyans or people from Quebec about this topic. Or Texans. Lol
I'm not in a bad mood. But the reality is that if the US won't recognise the secession, no country with friendly relations with the US will.
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Old 02-01-2017, 06:49 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
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Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
Maybe you can try to play the victim card (aka Palestine) and get Sweden on board, or play the money card (aka Taiwan) and get a bunch of irrelevant ****holes that are about to be underwater to recognise you.
The victim card is what I am afraid might happen, if it happens at all.

Not sure what you meant by the money card as I don't know the details of Taiwan's situation.
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Old 02-01-2017, 06:59 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosa surf View Post
I think this is an interesting discussion since there are areas in many countries of the world that have moments of rebellion and separatist movements. Catalunya in Spain comes to mind and Rio Grande do Sul in Brazil comes to mind too.

I always have this conversation with my husband since in his state (Rio Grande do Sul) there is alot of local pride and talk of separating from the country all the time. What are the prosand the cons?

I think it depends on who you are separating from? Separating from the current aggressive dictatorship style government in the US at this moment would not be a good idea, there would probably be military repression.
Other countries may recognize CA, but then easily forget about it to maintain a 'good' relationship with the US.
Perhaps the best answer yet. You make excellent points Rosa about how it would be dangerous to attempt that now. Nonetheless, that's why this movement, which actually started two and a half years ago has taken off now. Thing is, there is really no incentive to secede during peaceful times.
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