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Old 02-01-2017, 07:05 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,588 posts, read 27,390,347 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grega94 View Post
If the US won't recognize it, then I think most countries won't since it could be interpreted as an act of war and can then receive the wrath of the US by way of regime change or support of separatist movements. The only country that is probably crazy enough to recognize it would probably be North Korea and some other countries that are not recognized by the UN such as Palestine, Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Transnistria etc. However I think several countries might not publicly recognize, but will support California in any way they can while denying it at the same time, such as what Russia is doing in eastern Ukraine. Those countries would probably include Russia, China, Mexico, Iran, Syria, Cuba, Venezuela, Serbia etc. If CA can retain de facto independence for several years then maybe more countries will start to publicly recognize CA.
I think Serbia would openly recognize because they have a major bone to pick with the US over recognizing Kosovo. Russia is weird. The leader of this current movement is currently living in Russia and has attempted, or has actually opened what he called and embassy there.
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Old 02-01-2017, 07:28 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,588 posts, read 27,390,347 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
I don't think it is. Secession from the modern US has never been done, and if California wants to secede, there must be a comprehensible legal framework. If the US thinks a secession is unlawful, no Western country will ever recognise it.

The Spanish constitution states that the country is indivisive, and despite any referendum a part of the country (like Catalunya) cannot break off. Therefore no country in Europe won't accept an independent Catalunya. Except Russia.
Another great post. In Spain's case, it sounds pretty absolute so that's that.

In the US, the constitution doesn't mention secession at all, it's silent on the issue. For that reason, the Supreme Court case of Texas vs White is cited. This states that no state can unilaterally secede. So CA cannot just up and declare itself independent. It goes on to say; "except through consent of the states". Even though the states would be sealing their future fate on secession, it is highly unlikely any would agree to let the richest one leave. The hurdle grows taller. Lastly, that ruling says; "or through revolution". There's the main loophole. It never says what kind of revolution. Most people think of the violent upheaval type but they can be political too. Now the only question would be what would count as a political revolution?

The only other way is the way the movement is currently trying to do it which requires getting past three giant hurdles.
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Old 02-01-2017, 07:33 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,588 posts, read 27,390,347 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosa surf View Post
If it is the will of a majority of the people, it could happen regardless of national laws.
I tell people this all the time too but I've given up on it. If it's the will of a majority and recognized by the international community, the parent country's laws are irrelevant.
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Old 02-01-2017, 07:34 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,588 posts, read 27,390,347 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosa surf View Post
Are you in a bad mood again? Lol

It's a hypothetical question and the whole point of the post is to enter into discussion, not shut it down.

California belonged to Spain, then Mexico, then US. It's not completely impossible for it to become independent, regardless of what the parent country establishes or says.

It would nice if we could hear from Spaniards, Catalunyans or people from Quebec about this topic. Or Texans. Lol
Texans especially.
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Old 02-01-2017, 07:42 PM
 
Location: Hong Kong / Vienna
4,491 posts, read 6,344,759 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentoo View Post
Not sure what you meant by the money card as I don't know the details of Taiwan's situation.
Taiwan is paying a handful of small countries development assistance in exchange for full diplomatic relations. We are talking about some Pacific Islands (Palau, Solomon Islands, ...), some poor Central American countries (El Salvador, Honduras, ...) and two African countries (Burkina Faso and Swaziland).

Some of that countries (like Nauru) recognise whoever pays more.

The only country recognising Taiwan without receiving any funds is the Vatican, which has a problem with the PRC's freedom of religion (or the lack thereof).
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Old 02-02-2017, 01:14 AM
 
3,615 posts, read 2,330,890 times
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There is a much higher probability of California breaking up with racial and economic issues than any statewide secession , the Six Californias movement was kind of interesting.

Twenty-five California counties chose Trump for President of the United States, while 33 went for Clinton. Seventeen of the 21 California counties proposed for the “State of Jefferson” went for Trump, most by a pretty wide margin.

So much of it is racial and alot of the secessionist sentiment is based in LA county and big parts of the bay area, its very racial though. 40% of White Californians went for trump.

You dont think San Diego with its huge military population and influence would be against it? Its very different than LA where 70% of the school kids are Hispanic , LA is increasingly very dominated by latinos
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Old 02-02-2017, 07:00 AM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
23,221 posts, read 29,044,905 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
Here it is in a nutshell. Everything depends on if the US accepts the secession. Russia, Belarus, the Stans, Cuba and North Korea might recognise it just for fun.
Remember how we celebrated when the Soviet Union was broken up into how many different, separate countries? Those breakaway countries would surely recognize California, even help it to secede, with arms, if necessary!

I would find it highly ironic that the Feds would interfere with any state's secession, and, at the same time, encouraged the Soviet Union to split up!
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Old 02-02-2017, 07:03 AM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
23,221 posts, read 29,044,905 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PerseusVeil View Post
This. The only way California could legally gain independence from the United States is through a constitutional amendment and 3/4 of the states agreeing for it to leave.
Only way???????????????????????????????????? Given all the creativity and imagination in that state?
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Old 02-02-2017, 07:17 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,882 posts, read 38,032,223 times
Reputation: 11650
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosa surf View Post
Are you in a bad mood again? Lol

It's a hypothetical question and the whole point of the post is to enter into discussion, not shut it down.

California belonged to Spain, then Mexico, then US. It's not completely impossible for it to become independent, regardless of what the parent country establishes or says.

It would nice if we could hear from Spaniards, Catalunyans or people from Quebec about this topic. Or Texans. Lol
I am from Quebec and something of an "armchair expert" of these questions. What do you want to know?
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Old 02-02-2017, 09:35 AM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,588 posts, read 27,390,347 times
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Quote:
There is a much higher probability of California breaking up with racial and economic issues than any statewide secession , the Six Californias movement was kind of interesting.
No there isn't. That was proposed by a small handfull of rich elites and wasn't at all supported by the vast majority of the state. The fell WELL short of the number of signatures needed to qualify for the ballot.

Quote:
Twenty-five California counties chose Trump for President of the United States, while 33 went for Clinton. Seventeen of the 21 California counties proposed for the “State of Jefferson” went for Trump, most by a pretty wide margin.
You're just looking at colors on a map. A good number of counties were red but more people were blue. It's all about population distribution and density. Those counties that went for trump are sparsely populated. Compare that with just LA county which has more people than all but 10 other states.

Quote:
So much of it is racial and alot of the secessionist sentiment is based in LA county and big parts of the bay area, its very racial though. 40% of White Californians went for trump.
This sounds like hyperbole.

Quote:
You dont think San Diego with its huge military population and influence would be against it? Its very different than LA where 70% of the school kids are Hispanic , LA is increasingly very dominated by latinos
LOL Telling me about San Diego when I live here. Cute. I do agree with you somewhat though. I am not sure how all this matters. Few if any secessions that have taken place around the world ever have 100% support including the 13 colonies. When it comes to secession, it's always a majority rule sort of thing.
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