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Swedes and other Nordic people as well as Dutch are linguistic geniuses that they all can learn a foreign language so easily. I spend every day studying a foreign language but even with that I could never achieve their level of linguistic proficiency. I do admit I am a little jealous...
I take it you never been to areas in the deep south, the United Kingdom, or Jamaica where some people can have really thick accents (so thick in fact that it can be hard to understand them despite both areas having English as an official language)? The main thing with Sweden (along with other countries like Denmark or The Netherlands) is that even though English is a second language for them, practically everyone there is fluent (both verbally and in written form) in it so I can converse with them without an problem and most importantly I can actually understand what they are saying since they are speaking in a standard accent unlike say someone with a Jamaican accent or a very thick cockney accent.
I am from Maryland but I have been to most states and have lived in Utah and Texas before and there are some regions of the country where either the accents are too hard to comprehend or certain areas where people have a tendency to talk too fast (ie New York, Massachusetts) which makes it hard for me to understand what they are saying (disclaimer: I have an auditory processing disorder which makes hearing in certain situations difficult).
Understanding an accent and being good at how the language works are two different things.
I find it hilarious that this thread exist. Now, I am by no means an overly nationalistic American by any stretch but to even debate if second language English speaks actually speak better English than native speakers says a lot about those who may think this is possible.
Yes native English speakers do make a lot of mistakes but they are different than the mistakes made by ESL speakers. An example of this is many Americans erroneously using the word "then" when they should have used "than". I've seen a lot of ESL speakers (including in a recent post) use the word "to" in place of "than". This is not a mistake an American would make as the word "to" not only sounds different but in English, it has a more specific and restricted meaning than the equivalent words in other languages.
Speaking "better" in my opinion also means not sounding foreign even if the grammar is correct. What I mean by this is, I've seen post on these forums that go something like this; "I find myself very satisfied with your words". Or something similar. While this technically makes sense, it's weird because English just isn't spoken that way. This is a dead giveaway of a sentence structure from another language. When we express something we like, we use words to emphasize that feeling; "I absolutely loved this post" or "Beautifully said" or "awesome reply". Loved, Beautifully and awesome are words of emphasis. Satisfy and its derivatives are not words of emphasis and therefore are not used to express an emotion in this context. Spelling and grammar are only part of a language. Understanding these sorts of subtle nuances are the other big part and if an ESL speaker hasn't grasped this concept, I don't see how they can be better than a native speaker as they are unable to communicate with the same effectiveness.
I find it hilarious that this thread exist. Now, I am by no means an overly nationalistic American by any stretch but to even debate if second language English speaks actually speak better English than native speakers says a lot about those who may think this is possible.
I agree. I know a couple of native German speakers who say things like "I drive a bicycle to work" or "I need to make my homework," but make fun of Americans for mixing up "there" and "their." I'm a bit of a spelling fanatic myself but that is just silly.
I agree. I know a couple of native German speakers who say things like "I drive a bicycle to work" or "I need to make my homework," but make fun of Americans for mixing up "there" and "their." I'm a bit of a spelling fanatic myself but that is just silly.
That second statement you shared is an example of how using the wrong word could possibly convey the wrong meaning. "I need to make my homework" could be taken as the speaker needing to prepare his/her own work to do at home. If this is only spoken and not written, it wouldn't even be clear what was said. Do they mean "homework" for school or "home work" as if they need to make their house "work" for them? And work used in this context can have several meanings, mostly colloquial to mean "become satisfied with the results of improvements or projects". Problem is, most other languages have no equivalent for the word "do" but this is a critical part of speaking correct English. No American, Brit, Canadian etc. would ever make such a mistake. We "do" our homework, we don't "make" it. In Germn the verb "machen" (to make) would be used for this but in English, homework is done (verb "to do") not made. I am glad you used this example.
I find it hilarious that this thread exist. Now, I am by no means an overly nationalistic American by any stretch but to even debate if second language English speaks actually speak better English than native speakers says a lot about those who may think this is possible.
Yes native English speakers do make a lot of mistakes but they are different than the mistakes made by ESL speakers. An example of this is many Americans erroneously using the word "then" when they should have used "than". I've seen a lot of ESL speakers (including in a recent post) use the word "to" in place of "than". This is not a mistake an American would make as the word "to" not only sounds different but in English, it has a more specific and restricted meaning than the equivalent words in other languages.
Speaking "better" in my opinion also means not sounding foreign even if the grammar is correct. What I mean by this is, I've seen post on these forums that go something like this; "I find myself very satisfied with your words". Or something similar. While this technically makes sense, it's weird because English just isn't spoken that way. This is a dead giveaway of a sentence structure from another language. When we express something we like, we use words to emphasize that feeling; "I absolutely loved this post" or "Beautifully said" or "awesome reply". Loved, Beautifully and awesome are words of emphasis. Satisfy and its derivatives are not words of emphasis and therefore are not used to express an emotion in this context. Spelling and grammar are only part of a language. Understanding these sorts of subtle nuances are the other big part and if an ESL speaker hasn't grasped this concept, I don't see how they can be better than a native speaker as they are unable to communicate with the same effectiveness.
Great post, I find myself very satisfied with your words.
yeah, do and make are two different things. In many languages there's only one word which basically means "get something done", either to make an action (do your homework) or physically construct something (to make, but then there's also "make a plan"). At least that's how I understand it as a non-native speaker.
"Faire" in French, "Fare" in Italian and "Machen" in German. No distinction between "do" and "make" but the context helps to understand.
I find it hilarious that this thread exist. Now, I am by no means an overly nationalistic American by any stretch but to even debate if second language English speaks actually speak better English than native speakers says a lot about those who may think this is possible.
Yes native English speakers do make a lot of mistakes but they are different than the mistakes made by ESL speakers. An example of this is many Americans erroneously using the word "then" when they should have used "than". I've seen a lot of ESL speakers (including in a recent post) use the word "to" in place of "than". This is not a mistake an American would make as the word "to" not only sounds different but in English, it has a more specific and restricted meaning than the equivalent words in other languages.
Speaking "better" in my opinion also means not sounding foreign even if the grammar is correct. What I mean by this is, I've seen post on these forums that go something like this; "I find myself very satisfied with your words". Or something similar. While this technically makes sense, it's weird because English just isn't spoken that way. This is a dead giveaway of a sentence structure from another language. When we express something we like, we use words to emphasize that feeling; "I absolutely loved this post" or "Beautifully said" or "awesome reply". Loved, Beautifully and awesome are words of emphasis. Satisfy and its derivatives are not words of emphasis and therefore are not used to express an emotion in this context. Spelling and grammar are only part of a language. Understanding these sorts of subtle nuances are the other big part and if an ESL speaker hasn't grasped this concept, I don't see how they can be better than a native speaker as they are unable to communicate with the same effectiveness.
I think the discussion is interesting.
Americans say "I could care less" when they don't care about something whatsoever. That is arguably illogical.
The correct expression is "I couldn't care less" (i.e. something is so insignificant that it's not possible to value it less than you do).
yeah, do and make are two different things. In many languages there's only one word which basically means "get something done", either to make an action (do your homework) or physically construct something (to make, but then there's also "make a plan"). At least that's how I understand it as a non-native speaker.
"Faire" in French, "Fare" in Italian and "Machen" in German. No distinction between "do" and "make" but the context helps to understand.
There's also "tun" in German which differs from "machen", similar to "to make" and "to do" in English but not quite the same.
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