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Old 05-20-2017, 03:08 AM
 
7,855 posts, read 10,295,464 times
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the usa is even more powerful in every way than its own population or the rest of the world even considers it to be , in every sphere from economy to political influence to military , america is streets ahead , the american goverment - establishment seems to want much of its population to believe its not doing well enough however , this might explain the trump phenomenon , its incredibly unequal as a country but most americans undoubtably prefer it this way or at least have been convinced of it

it will be centuries before its toppled from its position
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Old 05-21-2017, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Slovakia
140 posts, read 151,892 times
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Not yet, China is nowhere near as powerfull as USSR was back than when Soviets were No.2 and considered superpower.

China has big economy and big population yes, but their cultural influence, soft power around the globe are nowhere near US levels. Their military is strong yes, but again nowhere near US level.

World changed since cold war and I can´t imagine Chinese to be so active worldwide how Soviets were. Chinese way of doing things is different, they are very active in some African countries, in some Asian countries with making inroads to Latin America, let see what happens in 20 years if there will be some countries thousands kilometers away from China that would be under their influence.
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Old 05-21-2017, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Toronto, ON
2,339 posts, read 2,072,967 times
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My spin on it is China will never be more culturally than it is today. It's not in the exporting of culture game, that's not the Chinese way. What it is doing is something that most people in the west are completely ignoring and that's modernizing the services and infrastructure in several African nations, and on a massive scale. Whatever you may think of China and Chinese people I commend their country for doing that, for whatever reason.
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Old 05-22-2017, 11:36 AM
 
1,110 posts, read 984,359 times
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are you joking? China less powerful than Soviets? China is ten times the economy of Russia.
5 times the population. China is the manufacturer of the world and if war comes,
it will convert its power into a war machine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibazn View Post
Not yet, China is nowhere near as powerfull as USSR was back than when Soviets were No.2 and considered superpower.

China has big economy and big population yes, but their cultural influence, soft power around the globe are nowhere near US levels. Their military is strong yes, but again nowhere near US level.

World changed since cold war and I can´t imagine Chinese to be so active worldwide how Soviets were. Chinese way of doing things is different, they are very active in some African countries, in some Asian countries with making inroads to Latin America, let see what happens in 20 years if there will be some countries thousands kilometers away from China that would be under their influence.
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Old 05-22-2017, 01:00 PM
 
4,668 posts, read 3,902,967 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gen2010 View Post
are you joking? China less powerful than Soviets? China is ten times the economy of Russia.
5 times the population. China is the manufacturer of the world and if war comes,
it will convert its power into a war machine.
I would agree that China has much more economic influence then the Soviet Union ever did, but neither have/had much influence in other areas.

Internationally I think China really hurts its own image and most people, even Chinese, don't trust the Chinese government. A good example was Sri Lanka refusing to allow Chinese anti piracy ships to dock at its ports, I think that was this month. Things like that happen all the time around the world. The world is watching China and how they treat Japan, S Korea, Vietnam, Thailand, Cambodia, Philippines, India, and the list goes on. China treats those countries very erratically. The Philippines made their political pivot towards China, and how did China respond, but sending survey ship protected by military escort into undisputed Filipino waters (not the South China Sea). Duerte (sp?) was furious and is now considering a trip to the US.

China and Russia both have the same problem. They both only care about money and influence. They will throw anyone under the bus to get there. Just look at Russia-Belarus relationship or China- North Korea. Every friend they make is for political expediency and they will throw them under the bus at a moments notice. That's why China has no real allies in the world. It's all about money. Heck, even Vietnam was (is?) trying to get a defense treaty with the US and they are part of the Sinosphere.
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Old 05-22-2017, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Slovakia
140 posts, read 151,892 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gen2010 View Post
are you joking? China less powerful than Soviets? China is ten times the economy of Russia.
5 times the population. China is the manufacturer of the world and if war comes,
it will convert its power into a war machine.
No.

Look at my comment again - I said China is nowhere near as powerfull as Soviets were back than when USSR was considered superpower.

I was not comparing 2017 China with 2017 Russia, I compared 2017 China in this world with cold war USSR in those times. It was different world, back than all those major countries/population wise/ and emerging economies like Nigeria, Indonesia, Brazil, India were not so relevant in global relations. International relations and power balance was different, we had bipolar world and Soviet role and position was clear to everyone.

How I said -China has big economy and population, but that´s it - so far limited sof power, their army is also nowhere near as powerfull as US army, their world position and world role is not of a superpower, this is also mostly Chinese decision, because they mantain foreign policy based on neutrality and are not agressive in way USA or USSR were in cold war - funding allies and keeping security commitments around the globe.

Now look at USSR in cold war times.

2nd largest economy - until Japan overtook them, also largest manufacterer of many goods and products/steel, machines and so on/.

huge military - rivaling US military at that time, USA was stronger in some segments - NAVY, while USSR in others - like ground forces, had larger nuclear arsenal and so on.

Political and global role - USSR was the main rival to USA and western world with exporting their communist and socialist ideas to many countries in era of decolonization, exporting weapons on debts/that were never paid/ and keeping alliances around the world/

They had their own military and economic blocks and satellite states they controled.

China in 2017´s world is nowhere near status USSR had in cold war times.

China is arguably economically in stronger position now than USSR ever was in their era mostly, because world is now more connected that ever, on other hand Soviet military and political position back than was far more impressive than what Chinese military and political position is in 2017.
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Old 05-22-2017, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
30,396 posts, read 19,191,759 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_bob View Post
the usa is even more powerful in every way than its own population or the rest of the world even considers it to be , in every sphere from economy to political influence to military , america is streets ahead , the american goverment - establishment seems to want much of its population to believe its not doing well enough however , this might explain the trump phenomenon , its incredibly unequal as a country but most americans undoubtably prefer it this way or at least have been convinced of it

it will be centuries before its toppled from its position
I believe your first paragraph to be correct. Not so sure on the second paragraph.
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Old 05-22-2017, 03:19 PM
 
8,943 posts, read 11,791,856 times
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The biggest mistake the US can make is to become complacent and underestimate other countries especially China.
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Old 05-22-2017, 04:09 PM
 
7,855 posts, read 10,295,464 times
Reputation: 5615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibazn View Post
Not yet, China is nowhere near as powerfull as USSR was back than when Soviets were No.2 and considered superpower.

China has big economy and big population yes, but their cultural influence, soft power around the globe are nowhere near US levels. Their military is strong yes, but again nowhere near US level.

World changed since cold war and I can´t imagine Chinese to be so active worldwide how Soviets were. Chinese way of doing things is different, they are very active in some African countries, in some Asian countries with making inroads to Latin America, let see what happens in 20 years if there will be some countries thousands kilometers away from China that would be under their influence.
the soviet union was never near as powerful as the usa portrayed it as being , its economy was less powerful than that of japan three or four years before it demised

nor was the soviet union as much of a threat to peace as america made it out to be , the soviets had a radical idealogical view which america would not tolerate and this is why it was opposed to the extent it was , the soviet union was more economically independent than china , chinas enormous labour resources allowed it to grow substantially but its a factory for the western economies for the most part and has few natural resources , its also politically not that influential , its power is much less than portrayed just like americas power is underestimated

the usa can more or less do what it likes , trump is just the first to nakedly and unashamedly remind us of this reality and doent try and present it in a remotely subtle way

Last edited by irish_bob; 05-22-2017 at 04:23 PM..
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Old 05-22-2017, 04:16 PM
 
7,855 posts, read 10,295,464 times
Reputation: 5615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibazn View Post
No.

Look at my comment again - I said China is nowhere near as powerfull as Soviets were back than when USSR was considered superpower.

I was not comparing 2017 China with 2017 Russia, I compared 2017 China in this world with cold war USSR in those times. It was different world, back than all those major countries/population wise/ and emerging economies like Nigeria, Indonesia, Brazil, India were not so relevant in global relations. International relations and power balance was different, we had bipolar world and Soviet role and position was clear to everyone.

How I said -China has big economy and population, but that´s it - so far limited sof power, their army is also nowhere near as powerfull as US army, their world position and world role is not of a superpower, this is also mostly Chinese decision, because they mantain foreign policy based on neutrality and are not agressive in way USA or USSR were in cold war - funding allies and keeping security commitments around the globe.

Now look at USSR in cold war times.

2nd largest economy - until Japan overtook them, also largest manufacterer of many goods and products/steel, machines and so on/.

huge military - rivaling US military at that time, USA was stronger in some segments - NAVY, while USSR in others - like ground forces, had larger nuclear arsenal and so on.

Political and global role - USSR was the main rival to USA and western world with exporting their communist and socialist ideas to many countries in era of decolonization, exporting weapons on debts/that were never paid/ and keeping alliances around the world/

They had their own military and economic blocks and satellite states they controled.

China in 2017´s world is nowhere near status USSR had in cold war times.

China is arguably economically in stronger position now than USSR ever was in their era mostly, because world is now more connected that ever, on other hand Soviet military and political position back than was far more impressive than what Chinese military and political position is in 2017.
add to that , the rise of china economically is a result of globalisation which really kicked off post the fall of the soveit union , china is effectively the factory for the usa and many european countries , stuff used to be made in england and the usa , now its made in china , the growth of china has been to the detriment of small business and blue collar workers in the usa and england , chinas economic might effectivley is relaint on the policy changes made in the usa post the cold war

its internal consumer market is still in its infancy compared to the usa etc and thus its economy overall is unlikely to grow at the level it has this past quarter century , major societal change is probably needed first
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