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Old 06-22-2017, 06:40 AM
Location: Near Luxembourg
1,891 posts, read 1,685,058 times
Reputation: 1392


Originally Posted by Junter View Post
ey, don't insult me, ok? I was the only one defending you in the European Weather thread.

I don't resemble amaroW in nothing, lol. He is well known for inventing and adding bazillions to anything related to the French economy. I never invented nothing on any economy. In fact he is also well known for saying that France is the richest country in the earth, the most powerful, that it can buy various times the UK and Germany with it's gold values and pieces of art, etc. You won't see me saying that. lmao

Why did you thought that for a small second? Because I said that France and the UK are very similar in economy? Well, in macroeconomy they are bud, just as in wages, quality of life, etc.

Well if you just look at indicators for quality of life, UK is slightly better than France. Yet UK households are more in debt and now the growth is slowing down -well, for the moment at least-. France and UK are the closest economy in Europe I think, in term of size.

But like you usually say about the "way of life" in Spain compare to wealthier countries,
the life is comfier in France IMO than in UK. The country is more diverse, and the south of France is comfier than the south of UK. I prefer french food than the one in UK without insulting it .

We see enough "GB" on our roads going to winter sports and summer vacations in Spain, France and Italy to prove it lol.

I could live in UK, I guess it's great. But I would be always more attracted by west-Germany or France or Switzerland...

Old 06-22-2017, 07:10 AM
Status: "“If a thing loves, it is infinite.”" (set 1 day ago)
Location: Great Britain
27,166 posts, read 13,455,286 times
Reputation: 19465
According to the UK National Police Chiefs Council (NPCC), the number of cameras has been grossy over estimated in the UK. Indeed the initial study was extremely flawed, and the number of cameras was downgraded by more than half to 1.8 million, however this includes cameras in public spaces, private buildings, streets, shops, businesses, work places, hospitals, schools, lesure centres, government buildings, transport hubs, motorways, service stations and everywhere else both private and public throughout the whole nation.

The NPCC study is the most comprehensive ever conduced and concludes that the number of cameras in the UK is nowhere near media reports which were based on a very flawed and inaccurate McCahill & Norris study which has now been discredited.

Originally Posted by National Police Chiefs Council

The most quoted figure for the number of cameras in the UK is that produced by Michael McCahill and Clive Norris in 2003. Their estimate of 4.2 million cameras is widely reported both in the UK and abroad. Indeed, so pervasive has the McCahill and Norris figure become that a search of Google identifies over 2400 references and many journalists, some leading academics and until recently, even senior politicians have used the 4.2 million estimate as if it were incontrovertible fact.

But what does the McCahill and Norris figure relate to? Many of those that use the figure have no idea how it was calculated or what type of cameras were counted. Does the figure include all cameras or just those that cover public space? Does it include cameras on private property that you have no access to? Does it include private domestic cameras? What about speed cameras?

Since the UK was one of the first countries to deploy cameras on the street, some commentators have assumed that the 4.2 million figure relates to public space cameras. It doesn’t, but little wonder then that we get headlines such as, “We are the most are spied upon nation in the world.’’

The reality is that the McCahill and Norris figure (4,285,000 to be precise) is based on counting the number of cameras along a road in a busy shopping district. They started by counted the number of publicly accessible premises and established the average number of cameras per location, then added the number of open-street CCTV cameras operated by the Borough Council together with an estimate of those operating in public institutions such as transport, hospitals and schools.

This figure was then extrapolated across the whole of London (population 7.2 million residents). They estimated that there were at least 500,000 CCTV cameras in London, or one camera for every 14 residents. Extrapolating this figure across the UK (population of 60 million) gave them the 4.285 million – the number that is quoted by so many to this day.

Those of us who do not live in a highly urbanised area may question the accuracy of extrapolating the number of cameras found in a busy London street across the whole of the UK.

To establish a total for the UK, we could adopt the methodology used by McCahill and Norris and extrapolate the Cheshire figure across the whole of the UK. However, we want to ensure that we reflect the differences in camera concentrations that occur between urban and rural areas, something that they failed to do.

National Statistics data indicates that 64 per cent of the UK population resides in urban areas with the rest living in rural areas. We identified which of our local authority wards were urban and rural and then selected the most extensively mapped wards at a ratio that reflects the urban/rural split in the UK population.

Camera concentrations in the urban areas of Cheshire range from 0.6 to 25.4 cameras per 100 population with a mean average of 3.6. Concentrations in rural areas range from 0.3 to 7.7 cameras per 100 population with a mean average of 0.9. An overall average, using a ratio of urban and rural areas that matches the national position, gives us 2.805 cameras per 100 population. On this basis, extrapolating the Cheshire findings across the UK population (60,776,238) gives us a figure of 1,704,238 cameras.

To this figure we need to add the public space CCTV cameras operated by local authorities. The CCTV User Group published figures in January 2009 following a survey of Local Authorities. They identified 29,703 public space cameras in England and Wales. If we extrapolate this figure to give us a UK-wide figure then we end up with 33,443 cameras. Interestingly, extrapolating Cheshire’s 504 public space cameras to give a UK figure gives us a figure of 30,631 cameras which is within 10 per cent of the CCTV User Group’s estimate.
Combining the premises CCTV with the public space CCTV gives us a figure of 1,737,681 cameras.

In the original McCahill and Norris estimate, they added a sum of cameras to account for street CCTV cameras operated by the Borough Council together with an estimate of those operating in public institutions such as transport, hospitals and schools. Cheshire’s mapping project captured the public institutions, while the open street cameras were counted by the CCTV User Group. That leaves us with ‘transport’. Assessing these numbers is difficult as there are cameras on trains, railway stations and the London Underground, not to mention some in buses.

Here our figures become less precise and we have to rely on the estimates of others. Estimates in London indicate that 2000 cameras watch over London’s over-ground railway stations and a further 11,000 operate on the London Underground system. We know that London has a particularly high concentration of cameras covering its transport infrastructure and so extrapolating the London numbers across the UK would give an unrealistically high figure.

Myth buster

What of the 300-a-day figure? Well, we tested that as well. Instead of using a mythical character who undertook a journey to all the local CCTV hotspots, we used real people undertaking real journeys. Using the mapping information and their own observations, we listed all the ANPR, traffic light, and speed cameras that they passed, together with those business premises cameras that may have captured a fleeting glance of their vehicle as it passed by.

We added the local authority cameras plus those in the various shops and leisure centres that they visited as they went about their normal activities. Finally, we added those cameras at their workplace.The figures ranged from 42 cameras to 101 with the mean average of 68. This is a far cry from the 300 a day that the media regularly use.

The mapping project in Cheshire has provided us with an opportunity to re-assess the number of cameras within the UK. What we have attempted to do is count the same type of surveillance cameras that McCahill and Norris counted but with a methodology that we felt would provide a more accurate estimate.

Only half the cameras

Eight years after the 4.2 million figure was first published, we now have research that indicates that the figure is less than half this.
If anyone asks us for a figure for the number of CCTV cameras in the UK, we will tell them that the best research we have to date says it is approximately 1.85 million. And the real figure for the number of times the average person is likely to be ‘caught’ on CCTV in a day is less than 70 – and most of these will be at your workplace or fleeting glimpses by cameras located in shops.

Are we still the most watched nation of earth? Since we have yet to see estimates from other countries it is impossible to say, but hopefully those that claim that we are will now have the opportunity to revise their figures.

Graeme Gerrard: CCTV surveillance, 3 March 2011 - National Police Chiefs Council

CCTV camera estimates halved by police - BBC News

Last edited by Brave New World; 06-22-2017 at 08:20 AM..
Old 06-22-2017, 07:35 AM
Status: "“If a thing loves, it is infinite.”" (set 1 day ago)
Location: Great Britain
27,166 posts, read 13,455,286 times
Reputation: 19465
In terms of CCTV the UK's 1.8 million cameras only form a small part of the 245 million surveillance cameras installed globally in 2014 alone, with over 30 million in operation in the US, and 65% of new cameras being installed in Asia.

245 million video surveillance cameras installed globally in 2014 - IHS

Originally Posted by Popular Mechanics

Most Americans would probably welcome such technology at what clearly is a marquee terrorist target. An ABC News/Washington Post poll in July 2007 found that 71 percent of Americans favor increased video surveillance.

Surveillance Society: New High-Tech Cameras Are Watching You - Popular Mechanics

Post 9/11, surveillance cameras everywhere - NBC News

The Next Privacy Battle: Cameras That Judge Your Every Move - Forbes

Last edited by Rozenn; 06-26-2017 at 01:35 PM.. Reason: Copyright
Old 06-22-2017, 07:48 AM
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,882 posts, read 38,026,310 times
Reputation: 11650
Originally Posted by Return2FL View Post
Good catch.

No. Joey Joe-Joe is Canadian I am positive. He lives in Toronto.
Old 06-22-2017, 08:13 AM
Location: Cannes
2,452 posts, read 2,381,116 times
Reputation: 1620
The only thing i dislike about the UK is the weather, other than that lovely place.
Old 06-22-2017, 08:25 AM
Location: In the heights
37,142 posts, read 39,394,719 times
Reputation: 21227
Originally Posted by Razza94 View Post
Yeah, it's so crowded that none of us can move without bumping into each other, and the sun hasn't been spotted for decades. Look at me walking the dog through this congested, cloudy hellhole at 9:30pm last weekend:

This is the stuff of nightmares.
Old 06-22-2017, 08:30 AM
Location: In the heights
37,142 posts, read 39,394,719 times
Reputation: 21227
Originally Posted by Danbo1957 View Post
That's because the United States won't allow it. We're not bombing the Middle East back to the Bronze Age just for the fun of it...

By the way, your Scottish golf courses are pretty cool.
Eh, the bombings and multiple operations in the Middle East in the last century are a large part of why there are so many extremists and outwards migration. I think maybe the strategy should be rethought a bit.
Old 06-22-2017, 08:34 AM
3,326 posts, read 2,619,350 times
Reputation: 629
Besides, this time I have to defend even London:



All of those pics were took within London...

Last edited by Rozenn; 06-26-2017 at 01:35 PM.. Reason: Copyright issues
Old 06-22-2017, 08:55 AM
Location: London, United Kingdom
699 posts, read 368,788 times
Reputation: 281
Originally Posted by Junter View Post
Besides, this time I have to defend even London:

All of those pics were took within London...
Richmond park? They have a deer park there I should go.
Old 06-22-2017, 09:00 AM
6,112 posts, read 3,923,007 times
Reputation: 2243
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
It's pretty pathetic that you consider every single critic towards Britain to be nonsensical.

Get over yourself. Some people like it, some people don't.
Criticism is okay, but not when it comes in the form of OP or this:

Originally Posted by Danbo1957 View Post
The country smells like a loo in the cellar of an old abandoned warehouse. And if I could get past that, I would never live in a country without specific individual freedoms constitutionally guaranteed. Orwell was right...
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