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From my experience, Australia and the United States have quite a bit in common with regards to their suburbs. They both have detached households with considerable garden/backyard areas, the "American Dream" and the "Australian Dream" both seem to embody the quarter-acre block ideal: that one has a large house on a quarter of an acre block of land, spread out in a leafy garden-community, outside of the inner-city realm but within commuting distance and a hop, skip and a jump from a major highway, road, and commercial precinct. The only difference is that the houses in many American states/neighbourhoods are spread considerably far apart without substantial fencing, whereas in Australia I did not encounter this, except maybe in suburban Canberra or some towns in the country, where the housing density is low. Australia also seems to be rather big on high fences to obscure/block off a property which is odd given the low crime rate and smaller population. Perhaps Aussie's value privacy more? Or perhaps this has to do with some kind of insularity or disinterest/Anglo-inspired reservation in mingling with the community/neighbourhood?
In suburban England, many of the houses in the suburbs are only semi-detached, do not have substantial greenery/grass/backyards and are mostly of the "terrace house" or "townhouse" variety, whereas in Australia and again, in America, the townhouse or terrace house is almost ubiquitous in inner-city neighbourhoods, while out in suburbia, the houses are very large and separate.
For those who have been to these four nations, what are your observations?
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Originally Posted by dunten
In suburban England, many of the houses in the suburbs are only semi-detached, do not have substantial greenery/grass/backyards and are mostly of the "terrace house" or "townhouse".
Most smaller housing in the UK tends to be in inner- ity areas, further out in the suburbs you have homes with gardens and pleasant rural villages.
Terrace Houses also tend to be a eature of areas with traditional industry such as mining or ship building, however a lot of traditional terrace housing in the north of England has been demolished over the years and replaced.
In London, a lot of the preoblem post was council (project) estates have also been demolished and replaced by new better quality housing.
From my experience, Australia and the United States have quite a bit in common with regards to their suburbs. They both have detached households with considerable garden/backyard areas, the "American Dream" and the "Australian Dream" both seem to embody the quarter-acre block ideal: that one has a large house on a quarter of an acre block of land, spread out in a leafy garden-community, outside of the inner-city realm but within commuting distance and a hop, skip and a jump from a major highway, road, and commercial precinct. The only difference is that the houses in many American states/neighbourhoods are spread considerably far apart without substantial fencing, whereas in Australia I did not encounter this, except maybe in suburban Canberra or some towns in the country, where the housing density is low. Australia also seems to be rather big on high fences to obscure/block off a property which is odd given the low crime rate and smaller population. Perhaps Aussie's value privacy more? Or perhaps this has to do with some kind of insularity or disinterest/Anglo-inspired reservation in mingling with the community/neighbourhood?
In suburban England, many of the houses in the suburbs are only semi-detached, do not have substantial greenery/grass/backyards and are mostly of the "terrace house" or "townhouse" variety, whereas in Australia and again, in America, the townhouse or terrace house is almost ubiquitous in inner-city neighbourhoods, while out in suburbia, the houses are very large and separate.
For those who have been to these four nations, what are your observations?
So MASSIVE USA and MASSIVE Australia two HUGE, new world countries with LOW population densities have 'different' suburbs to SMALL, old world country with exceptionally HIGH population density England. I wonder why? :-D
There's a very useful list made by Joel Kotkin, an American geographer, on the world's 1000 or so largest metro areas:
demographia.com/db-worldua.pdf
See page 61 (Table 4) of the document in the link for population densities of various metro areas.
Note that, for almost every city in the first world, the bulk of the population lives in the suburbs. Which means that even though NYC proper is 3 times denser than LA proper, because NYC's suburbs are less dense than LA's suburbs, LA's urbanized area comes out denser than NYC's. The population density of the metro is weighted more towards the suburbs than the city proper.
For London, obviously the density figure is higher. So let's move on to Canada, Australia, and the U.S.
Selected metro areas by population per square mile:
Toronto, 7200 (highest in Canada)
Los Angeles, 6000 (highest in the U.S.)
San Francisco-San Jose, 5300 (highest
Sydney, 5100 (highest in Australia)
Melbourne, San Diego 4000
Houston, Dallas, Virginia Beach, Seattle: 2800
Brisbane, Omaha, Philadelphia, Columbus: 2700
Atlanta: 1700 (one of the most sprawling cities in the U.S. and the world)
Los Angeles' suburbs have many zero lot lines, many townhomes, many condos, and many apartment complexes. Take Irvine, California, as an example. It's urban development pattern and density is much closer to Markham, Ontario (Toronto suburb) than it is to most other U.S. suburbs like Naperville, Illinois.
I have heard from several sources, that in PARIS the northern suburbs like Saint Denis are full of African, and Moslem immigrants, many in high-rise apartment projects.
While the city of Paris proper is higher-class and housing more expensive. Correct me if I'm wrong, or if what I said is an over-simplification.
The fencing observation is accurate. The lack of fencing in US suburbs relative to Australia was puzzling to me when I first noticed it. My view is that its not necessarily about security and certainly not about insularity, but simply a preference for privacy in your own backyard.
I have heard from several sources, that in PARIS the northern suburbs like Saint Denis are full of African, and Moslem immigrants, many in high-rise apartment projects.
While the city of Paris proper is higher-class and housing more expensive. Correct me if I'm wrong, or if what I said is an over-simplification.
Massive oversimplification. The dichotomy that Paris is good suburbs are bad is very wrong. Some of Northern Paris is very sketchy, some suburbs in the south are also sketchy as well as some in the east as well. North of the city are the most numerically of sketchy suburbs but their are literally 8-11 million Parisians outside of the city depending on what you use for metro area. About 1-2 million live in these neighborhoods or cities that are sketchy.Generally West is the wealthiest and safest direction but the outer parts of Paris I.e the Outer suburbs are generally very safe in all directions, and at least 3-6 million people love there spending on what you site.
The reason I say sketchy is because these places are as violent as your average lower middle class neighborhood in America. The best way to describe them to an America is the worst part of Staten Island, or the worst part of Orange County- Anaheim/Santa Anna or the worst part of Austin, Texas. Not pleasant but it isnt a place most people avoid because their scared of getting shot. Rather their scared of getting pickpocketed or their car broken into.
Saint Denis is twice as murderous and twice as dangerous generally as the rest of France. Paris generally averages around 0-1.5 murders per 100,000. Saint Denis is averaging 1.5-4 murders per 100,000. The Northern department of Siene Saint-Denis where the city of Saint Denis is located averages 27 for 1.6 million people. Or roughly 1.7 murders per 100,000 as while it isn’t very African it includes areas with lots of French, Vietnamese and lots of middle class African places as well.
Point is the worst part of France don’t even touch the U.S average murder rate so danger is very subjective. Pickpocketing is a problem though especially compared to NYC.
I have never noticed the difference in the US, but yes in Australia there are nearly always side and back fences and very often front fences too, which are usually lower. I also imagine it is a privacy issue. Perhaps from the British heritage that many of us have.
The fencing observation is accurate. The lack of fencing in US suburbs relative to Australia was puzzling to me when I first noticed it. My view is that its not necessarily about security and certainly not about insularity, but simply a preference for privacy in your own backyard.
I don't know if it is privacy. I don't do anything in my front yard and the windows of the house have binds/curtains. In American homes back fences almost aren't necessary because deep in suburbia, most houses are a good many metres apart meaning you can't really see to the next backyard through the dense thicket of trees/shrubbery (I have noticed all the tree culling that goes on in Australian suburbia - it's a travesty).
One thing I dislike about Australian suburbia is the fact that houses are a thumb print apart, despite all the room we have available. Subdivisions are only making this worse, you can basically fling from gutter to gutter, the houses are that close. High-density makes sense in the city, but the appeal of the suburbs was supposed to be the "quarter acre block", and councils should be more stringent about how close together houses can and can't be outside the inner-city. Let us at least be afforded some distance/spaciousness between one another out in suburbia.
I don't know if it is privacy. I don't do anything in my front yard and the windows of the house have binds/curtains. In American homes back fences almost aren't necessary because deep in suburbia, most houses are a good many metres apart meaning you can't really see to the next backyard through the dense thicket of trees/shrubbery (I have noticed all the tree culling that goes on in Australian suburbia - it's a travesty).
One thing I dislike about Australian suburbia is the fact that houses are a thumb print apart, despite all the room we have available. Subdivisions are only making this worse, you can basically fling from gutter to gutter, the houses are that close. High-density makes sense in the city, but the appeal of the suburbs was supposed to be the "quarter acre block", and councils should be more stringent about how close together houses can and can't be outside the inner-city. Let us at least be afforded some distance/spaciousness between one another out in suburbia.
Sounds just like Southern California. Houses are close together and fenced yards are mandatory.
As always, when comparing the US and Australia you have to take into consideration the difficulty of generalizing about the much greater US population. Millions upon millions of Americans live in the kind of suburb you describe. In fact, I was in my early 20s before I encountered a suburban residential area without fenced yards and I was just as surprised by it as any Australian.
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