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View Poll Results: Which group of cities is best?
NY, LA, Chicago, Washington, Toronto, SF 12 30.77%
London, Paris, Berlin, Madrid, Brussels, Moscow 27 69.23%
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-27-2021, 03:31 AM
 
Location: Taipei
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Europe wins if you are a tourist, but in terms of actually looking for a job North America is like 10 times better.
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Old 02-27-2021, 04:21 AM
 
827 posts, read 704,481 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorian22 View Post
If this would have had Mexico City, Montreal, Guadalajara, Monterrey and/or Quebec City this would have been more interesting. Meh. Europe all the way no competition.

Besides DF these cities aren't in the same league whatsoever as the ones in the OP. Quebec City is downright tiny
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Old 02-27-2021, 05:30 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
Europe wins if you are a tourist, but in terms of actually looking for a job North America is like 10 times better.
It depends where you are in Europe, as the Euro crisis hit southern Europe hard, however other parts of Europe have much better employment.

The same is true of the US, which has rust belts and the so called flyover states.

However in terms of the cities mentioned by the OP, they tend to be economic hubs and present plenty of business and employment opportunities.
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Old 02-27-2021, 08:17 AM
 
Location: Canada
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A lot of people from France are moving to Canada, mainly for employment. Having talked to a few they make it sound like things are rough in France when it comes to employment. Most move to Quebec, but I have met a few out here on the prairies.
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Old 02-27-2021, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Taipei
7,642 posts, read 6,064,570 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
It depends where you are in Europe, as the Euro crisis hit southern Europe hard, however other parts of Europe have much better employment.

The same is true of the US, which has rust belts and the so called flyover states.

However in terms of the cities mentioned by the OP, they tend to be economic hubs and present plenty of business and employment opportunities.
Between these cities North America easily wins. Other than London and Paris, the other 4 are economic midgets.
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Old 02-28-2021, 01:22 AM
 
Location: Alexandria, Commonwealth of Virginia
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Europe. Toronto is a deadweight for the North American group.
  • Brussels is the de facto capital of the European Union
  • London is the capital of a P5 Security Council State
  • Madrid is the least important politically, but is a gateway to Latin America
  • Moscow is the capital of a P5 Security Council State
  • Paris is the capital of a P5 Security Council State
  • Chicago is the premier city of a region with 75 million+ people, the world's largest financial derivatives exchange, and the most productive and fertile agricultural region in the world
  • Los Angeles is home to the most influential cultural apparatus in the world (Hollywood)
  • New York is the seat of the UN + the 2nd biggest economy (far ahead of any others on the list)
  • Toronto is the economic center of a small country of 38 million people. It's not a national capital and doesn't have any notable influence outside its parent country.
  • Washington is the capital of a P5 Security Council State and the world's only extant superpower

Toronto screws up any chance North America had. It should be replaced with Mexico City.
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Old 02-28-2021, 02:16 AM
 
492 posts, read 355,976 times
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One city isn't going to shift the entire balance of 12 here. Toronto is significantly larger and more economically powerful than Berlin, Madrid and Brussels and by regional population also bigger than D.C.

"Region of 75 million people" is obviously just pulled out of nowhere, I can point to any city, draw a radius around it, make up an agglomeration and call it the epicenter if I choose to believe it. Draw one around Toronto, call it the premiere node of the Great Lakes and you come up with the same number.

Chicago isn't much more of a notable city than Toronto is in this comparison anyhow, we all know the real North American juggernauts nowadays are NY-LA-SF-DC and Chicago's just there based on history and population. Toronto by clout and influence definitely falls behind these five in NA, and maybe a couple more, but to act as if it's some minor bit player is just ignorance and bias.

If we are bringing countries into it and Canada's too small and insignificant then Belgium is positively miniscule and Spain isn't any more influential or powerful in the world, and Mexico would be an utter joke. And since when did population size mean much in country rankings anyway? When has Indonesia, Bangladesh, Philippines or Ethiopia or their cities been major power players in the world, aside from having a three digit million+ population? Compare with the influence tiny Switzerland, or Denmark, or Australia have respective to their sizes.

In any case and with all due respect to AT Kearney I'd replace Brussels with Milan and Toronto and Chicago with Mexico City and Montreal. Much more interesting set for both continents.
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Old 02-28-2021, 02:48 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
Between these cities North America easily wins. Other than London and Paris, the other 4 are economic midgets.
Other than London and Paris, these would not have been the cities or areas I would have chosen in terms of GDP, however the thread is also about power and influence.

Milan and the Lombardy region of Italy would have been a better choice in terms of finance and GDP, as would Switzerland with cities such as Zurich and Geneva.

In terms of Moscow it is quite some distance from the heart of Europe and also has economic sanctions imposed upon it, along with the rest of Russia.

Whilst Spain's economy including Madrid was badly hit by the Euro crisis.

As for Brussels it is of political importance rather than being an economic or financial powerhouse.

Berlin is also not an economic powerhouse, it is more of a political centre of power, with the financial sector being associated with Frankfurt, and other economic activity distributed to other cities including Munich and Hamburg.

As for US cities, there GDP is often calculated using vast Statistical areas, which skews the actual city gdp.

Last edited by Brave New World; 02-28-2021 at 03:02 AM..
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Old 02-28-2021, 02:48 AM
 
Location: Alexandria, Commonwealth of Virginia
2,217 posts, read 1,597,342 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svelten View Post
One city isn't going to shift the entire balance of 12 here. Toronto is significantly larger and more economically powerful than Berlin, Madrid and Brussels and by regional population also bigger than D.C.

"Region of 75 million people" is obviously just pulled out of nowhere, I can point to any city, draw a radius around it, make up an agglomeration and call it the epicenter if I choose to believe it. Draw one around Toronto, call it the premiere node of the Great Lakes and you come up with the same number.

Chicago isn't much more of a notable city than Toronto is in this comparison anyhow, we all know the real North American juggernauts nowadays are NY-LA-SF-DC and Chicago's just there based on history and population. Toronto by clout and influence definitely falls behind these five in NA, and maybe a couple more, but to act as if it's some minor bit player is just ignorance and bias.

If we are bringing countries into it and Canada's too small and insignificant then Belgium is positively miniscule and Spain isn't any more influential or powerful in the world, and Mexico would be an utter joke. And since when did population size mean much in country rankings anyway? When has Indonesia, Bangladesh, Philippines or Ethiopia or their cities been major power players in the world, aside from having a three digit million+ population? Compare with the influence tiny Switzerland, or Denmark, or Australia have respective to their sizes.

In any case and with all due respect to AT Kearney I'd replace Brussels with Milan and Toronto and Chicago with Mexico City and Montreal. Much more interesting set for both continents.
1. Washington CSA has more people than the Golden Horseshoe.

2. 75 million is the population of the U.S. Midwest, of which Chicago is pre-eminent. Are you implying that Toronto is the capital of the U.S. Midwest??

3. Chicago is the weakest of the U.S. 4, but is far more of an economic juggernaut than Toronto. See below.

4. Here are the OECD metro area GDP numbers. Toronto is the weakest link in the North America cohort:
  • New York: 1,720
  • Tokyo: 1,655
  • Los Angeles: 1,173
  • Washington-Baltimore: 977
  • Paris: 822
  • San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose: 801
  • Seoul: 796
  • London: 779
  • Chicago: 664
  • Osaka-Kobe-Kyoto: 628
  • Dallas-Fort Worth: 489
  • Philadelphia-Wilmington: 449
  • Houston: 449
  • Shanghai: 444
  • Guangzhou-Foshan: 425
  • Boston: 410 (does not include Providence, RI)
  • Beijing: 406
  • Nagoya: 389
  • Atlanta: 371
  • Toronto-Hamilton-Oshawa: 358
  • Miami-West Palm Beach: 352
  • Seattle: 352
  • Singapore: 342
  • Hong Kong: 341
  • Shenzhen: 309
  • Sydney: 304
  • Tianjin: 269
  • Mexico City: 257
  • Milan: 255
  • Detroit: 254
  • Minneapolis: 254
  • Madrid: 253
  • Melbourne: 244
  • Phoenix: 235
  • San Diego: 235
  • Munich: 214
  • Berlin: 210
  • Denver: 195
  • Rome: 184
  • Ruhr: 184
  • Amsterdam: 183
  • Brussels: 183
  • Hamburg: 177
  • Stuttgart: 169
  • Stockholm: 167
  • Frankfurt: 166
  • Montr√©al: 163
  • Barcelona: 163
  • Dublin: 162
  • Perth (Australia): 158
  • St. Louis: 156
  • Portland: 156

5. Brussels is the capital of the E.U. That alone gives it far more power and influence than Toronto will ever have. Madrid is the capital of Spain, one of Top 4 players in the E.U. And again, being a leader of the E.U. (the 2nd largest economy in the world) gives Madrid far more influence than Toronto. London, Moscow, Paris are all UN permanent Security Council members. And Berlin is the de facto leader of the E.U. It's not about population size. It's about influence. Toronto's influence (be it geopolitical, economic, sociocultural) end at Canada's borders.
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Old 02-28-2021, 02:53 AM
 
Location: Taipei
7,642 posts, read 6,064,570 times
Reputation: 5421
Quote:
Originally Posted by manitopiaaa View Post
Toronto is the economic center of a small country of 38 million people. It's not a national capital and doesn't have any notable influence outside its parent country.

Toronto screws up any chance North America had. It should be replaced with Mexico City.
That's hilarious considering Canada is a larger economy than Mexico.
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