U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > World
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: Which group of cities is best?
NY, LA, Chicago, Washington, Toronto, SF 15 30.61%
London, Paris, Berlin, Madrid, Brussels, Moscow 34 69.39%
Voters: 49. You may not vote on this poll

Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-06-2021, 11:47 AM
 
Location: In the heights
28,919 posts, read 28,069,349 times
Reputation: 15489

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by inbred-anglo View Post
To me Toronto is like a poor man's NYC. Too suburban, too many highways, I am always underwhelmed.

In Canada Montreal is the coolest city if we go by urban environment that is.

Vancouver to me feels artificial and bland.

In regards to the US. (NYC, Philadelphia are nice), not a fan of those mega sprawling cities full of highways and shopping malls like Orlando, Atlanta, Houston.

I am not sure why people do not mention Mexico city more. It is by far the best of all worlds.
Mexico city is like this assemly of three or four different continents in one city.

Want Europe?


Go to the old town where the Spaniards and the Austro-Hungarian royalty colonized and built palaces, European like avenues, buildings. You would not be wrong for thinking you are somewhere in Europe.

Want North America?


Go to the Santa Fe district, skyscrapers, shopping malls, feels like Downtown Toronto.

Want indigenous?


Go to Xochimilco with its floating aztec gardens or those ancient pyramids north of the city with pre-columbus food.
And all of that is just one single city!

I lived in Europe 20 years and I was far more blown away by Mexico city's massiveness and diversity than by places like Rome, Barcelona or Paris.

I do think there are inner city highways that are best removed, but Toronto does not seem substantially less urban than the vast majority of European and North American cities. It probably did decades back, but with the kind of development and density they've been pushing, even with the patchwork of older smaller residences through the city, it's still a fairly urban city. There are after all only a handful of European cities that have about a million or more people in 100 square kilometers in their centers.


I do like Mexico City more and think it's more distinctive, and it's wild that the list's methodology puts Mexico City below so many other cities, but that doesn't mean Toronto isn't pretty great.

Last edited by OyCrumbler; 03-06-2021 at 12:08 PM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-06-2021, 12:38 PM
 
31 posts, read 4,576 times
Reputation: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
I do think there are inner city highways that are best removed, but Toronto does not seem substantially less urban than the vast majority of European and North American cities. It probably did decades back, but with the kind of development and density they've been pushing, even with the patchwork of older smaller residences through the city, it's still a fairly urban city. There are after all only a handful of European cities that have about a million or more people in 100 square kilometers in their centers.


I do like Mexico City more and think it's more distinctive, and it's wild that the list's methodology puts Mexico City below so many other cities, but that doesn't mean Toronto isn't pretty great.
Mexico city is definitely underrated.

Toronto is fun but it can be too north American. I would make a list of top cities in North America as follows:

NYC
Mexico city
Philadelphia
Montreal
Toronto
Chicago


NYC can topple over overrated London
Mexico city beats Paris
Toronto is on par with Berlin
Montreal and Madrid are on the same level
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-06-2021, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Canada
6,496 posts, read 5,713,255 times
Reputation: 4533
Quote:
Originally Posted by inbred-anglo View Post

Toronto is fun but it can be too north American.
LOL, what else is it supposed to be?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-06-2021, 12:52 PM
 
Location: In the heights
28,919 posts, read 28,069,349 times
Reputation: 15489
Quote:
Originally Posted by inbred-anglo View Post
Mexico city is definitely underrated.

Toronto is fun but it can be too north American. I would make a list of top cities in North America as follows:

NYC
Mexico city
Philadelphia
Montreal
Toronto
Chicago


NYC can topple over overrated London
Mexico city beats Paris
Toronto is on par with Berlin
Montreal and Madrid are on the same level

I love Mexico City--I don't have a problem with Toronto being North American. It'd be great if Toronto were more the average of what Anglo Northern American were like, because that would be more environmentally sustainable while also being pretty safe and fun. In some ways, I think of Toronto's development as the trajectory a lot of industrial cities in the US interior could have gone had the US not pushed urban renewal and freeway expansion in downtown cores as hard, if local municipalities were more willing to pool together on planning (though Portland and Twin Cities did a pretty good job here) so there wasn't the kind of cross-metro sniping, and different levels of government more willing to have bought out and run the services of the increasingly defunct passenger rail services.

I wish I had more knowledge and experience of Caribbean and Latin American cities within North America, because there are some that look pretty interesting on the outset. I think top cities sort of depends on what you're ranking and I think overall "power" of some kind is what the lists are, otherwise I reckon places like Havana, Santo Domingo and Guadalajara would have a shot on the list.

Last edited by OyCrumbler; 03-06-2021 at 01:29 PM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-06-2021, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Canada
6,496 posts, read 5,713,255 times
Reputation: 4533
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
I love Mexico City--I don't have a problem with Toronto being North American. It'd be great if Toronto were more the average of what Anglo Northern American were like, because that would be more environmentally sustainable while also being pretty safe and fun. In some ways, I think of Toronto's development as the trajectory a lot of industrial cities in the US interior could have gone had the US not pushed urban renewal and freeway expansion in downtown cores as hard, if local municipalities were more willing to pool together on planning (though Portland and Twin Cities did a pretty good job here) so there wasn't the kind of cross-metro sniping, and different levels of government more willing to have bought out and run the services of the increasingly defunct passenger rail services.
.

Toronto is currently improving its rail/rapid transit. They are building new lines and expanding current subway lines. Toronto currently has the third highest ridership of any metro system in North America, behind NYC and Mexico city. Toronto will also upgrade their diesel commuter trains to electric rail which is cleaner and will allow them to run faster and have more stops.

Toronto also has a pretty good tram/street car system. I don't know what other cities in North America have such large street car system.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-07-2021, 08:02 AM
 
Location: In the heights
28,919 posts, read 28,069,349 times
Reputation: 15489
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanLuis View Post
Toronto is currently improving its rail/rapid transit. They are building new lines and expanding current subway lines. Toronto currently has the third highest ridership of any metro system in North America, behind NYC and Mexico city. Toronto will also upgrade their diesel commuter trains to electric rail which is cleaner and will allow them to run faster and have more stops.

Toronto also has a pretty good tram/street car system. I don't know what other cities in North America have such large street car system.

It would be nice if Toronto's metro system were already bigger than it is, though even as it is now, it'd probably rank among the top ten within Europe for ridership. The big leg up a lot of European cities have though is that their commuter rail systems are S-Bahn/RER sorts of things where each branch is fairly frequent throughout the day and where multiple branches converge into a single line, especially in the dense urban core, they end up taking on the role of rapid transit. That's something all 6 of the NA cities listed would greatly benefit from implementing.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-07-2021, 08:40 AM
 
31 posts, read 4,576 times
Reputation: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
It would be nice if Toronto's metro system were already bigger than it is, though even as it is now, it'd probably rank among the top ten within Europe for ridership. The big leg up a lot of European cities have though is that their commuter rail systems are S-Bahn/RER sorts of things where each branch is fairly frequent throughout the day and where multiple branches converge into a single line, especially in the dense urban core, they end up taking on the role of rapid transit. That's something all 6 of the NA cities listed would greatly benefit from implementing.
This is my biggest issue with the GTA.

Too suburban and the downtown is largely this very artificial recollection of shinny 21th century skyscrapers making the city feel pretty sterile. There are a few cool old buildings that managed to escape being demolished here and there but they are overpowered by the shinny skyscrapers that have replaced historical buildings, currently serving as abandoned office buildings in the era of work from home and COVID.

They really need better suburban trains, most suburbs need a downtown of their own.

It is nothing like the RER or S-Bahn you mention where these massive modern trains take people around.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-07-2021, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Canada
6,496 posts, read 5,713,255 times
Reputation: 4533
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
It would be nice if Toronto's metro system were already bigger than it is
It's working on it.


Quote:
though even as it is now, it'd probably rank among the top ten within Europe for ridership. The big leg up a lot of European cities have though is that their commuter rail systems are S-Bahn/RER sorts of things where each branch is fairly frequent throughout the day and where multiple branches converge into a single line, especially in the dense urban core, they end up taking on the role of rapid transit. That's something all 6 of the NA cities listed would greatly benefit from implementing.
I agree. Toronto is definitely working on it. The lines will run more frequently, go faster and have more stops when the upgrades are complete. The Go Transit commuter train currently has a ridership of almost a quarter of a million people daily. It connects the suburbs and beyond. Torontos transit system will greatly improve/increase this decade.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-07-2021, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Southwest Suburbs
4,143 posts, read 7,928,165 times
Reputation: 2647
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
Everyone knows that the US metro areas and US GMP are a joke.

Some of the US metro area sizes are just laughable, indeed the NYC metropolitan statistical area is around 22 times the size of London at 13,318 sq miles (34,494 km²) and with a population approaching 24 million and with 1.7 trillion in gdp.

The Chicago statistical metro area covers 10,856 sq mi (28,120 km2) with a population of 9,458,539.

The Los Angeles–Anaheim–Riverside combined statistical area covers 33,954 square miles (87,940 km2), with a population of 18.79 million (2017).

The San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland, CA Combined Statistical Area covers 10,191 sq mi (26,390 km2).

The Baltimore–Washington metropolitan area is a combined statistical area of 12,630.2 sq miles (32712 km2), and a population of around 9,764,315.

And so it goes on and on.....

For comparison the entire country of Israel is 8,522 square miles, Belgium is 11,787 square miles, Switzerland is 15,940 square miles, the Netherlands are 16,100 sq miles and Denmark is 16,639 sq miles. Whilst Wales in the UK is 8,005 sq mi, whilst the South East of England region is 7,373 sq mi and the East Anglia region is around 7,382 sq mi.

So you can make what you want of such US Metro GDP figures, although personally I just laugh at them, as they are pure nonsense.

Chicago's MSA covers 7,195. 8.3 million live in a 6-county region with a land area about half of that, and over 5 million live within 945 sq. miles.
https://censusreporter.org/profiles/...wi-metro-area/

A lot of US cities are by far the dominate city for economic opportunity within a 150-200 mile radius, drawing people from rural areas to the center city or a suburb on the peripherals. It inflates our MSAs' physical size, since it's centered around commuter patterns, rather than an urbanized area(there are statistics for that too). The vast majority of those living in a MSA are living in the urbanized area(defined as having at least 1,000 people per square mile in a given area, or something along those lines).

Quote:
Originally Posted by manitopiaaa View Post
He's being petty because he lives in a metro that can barely crack $50,000 GDP per capita, yet pretends to be as rich as Dubai. He's mad somebody brought it up Toronto's relative poverty and now wants to attack me because I live in Washington. I won't take the bait.

If we look at the data though, the numbers are simple: Toronto's GDP is $358 billion with 7,363,757 people. To put things in perspective, Washington, D.C. (the city proper, with 705,749 people) has a GDP of $200.3 billion, half of Toronto's entire metro GDP with 1/10th the population.
Where did you find that number for the DC's city proper GDP? Even in my county of 5 million, the GDP came to $425b in 2019, and that's just double of a city with like one-eighth of the population. The second most populous(922k) and wealthiest per capita income Dupage County comes to 94.8b.

If it is true that the GDP in DC's proper is $200b, it's amazing that retail sales are so minuscule to be a major city. It's barely greater in total sales than Naperville IL, a principal suburb of Chicago and one-fifth the population of DC. Per capita, DC is among the lowest for a major city
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fa...nois/PST045219

Btw, I'm not coming for DC, since many other US cities(including Chicago) do poorly when it comes to that. The suburbs shine here. On the other hand, Seattle seems to be the highest per capita($63,000) for any major city, a world apart from DC's $7,000.

Last edited by Chicagoland60426; 03-07-2021 at 04:50 PM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-07-2021, 09:54 PM
 
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
5,939 posts, read 4,597,874 times
Reputation: 3757
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicagoland60426 View Post
Chicago's MSA covers 7,195. 8.3 million live in a 6-county region with a land area about half of that, and over 5 million live within 945 sq. miles.
https://censusreporter.org/profiles/...wi-metro-area/

A lot of US cities are by far the dominate city for economic opportunity within a 150-200 mile radius, drawing people from rural areas to the center city or a suburb on the peripherals. It inflates our MSAs' physical size, since it's centered around commuter patterns, rather than an urbanized area(there are statistics for that too). The vast majority of those living in a MSA are living in the urbanized area(defined as having at least 1,000 people per square mile in a given area, or something along those lines).



Where did you find that number for the DC's city proper GDP? Even in my county of 5 million, the GDP came to $425b in 2019, and that's just double of a city with like one-eighth of the population. The second most populous(922k) and wealthiest per capita income Dupage County comes to 94.8b.

If it is true that the GDP in DC's proper is $200b, it's amazing that retail sales are so minuscule to be a major city. It's barely greater in total sales than Naperville IL, a principal suburb of Chicago and one-fifth the population of DC. Per capita, DC is among the lowest for a major city
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fa...nois/PST045219

Btw, I'm not coming for DC, since many other US cities(including Chicago) do poorly when it comes to that. The suburbs shine here. On the other hand, Seattle seems to be the highest per capita($63,000) for any major city, a world apart from DC's $7,000.
Washington DC proper (712k people) has a higher GDP than 17 states, and almost half of Toronto's entire metro GDP:

50 States & DC Q2 2019 GDP
---UNITED STATES.$21,340,267,000,000---
CALIFORNIA........$3,123,731,500,000
TEXAS..................$1,881,553,300,000
NEW YORK...........$1,727,702,000,000
FLORIDA...............$1,087,311,800,000
ILLINOIS.............. ...$893,579,700,000
PENNSYLVANIA.....$810,326,200,000
OHIO........................$696,087,800,000
NEW JERSEY...........$641,902,200,000
GEORGIA.................$613,105,200,000
WASHINGTON........$596,412,100,000
MASSACHUSETTS.$592,587,900,000
NORTH CAROLINA.$585,050,200,000
VIRGINIA.................$551,847,700,000
MICHIGAN..............$539,231,700,000
MARYLAND.............$426,407,300,000
COLORADO..............$388,730,800,000
MINNESOTA............$379,387,300,000
TENNESSEE............$378,285,500,000
INDIANA..................$372,060,600,000
ARIZONA.................$364,276,600,000
WISCONSIN............$342,613,200,000
MISSOURI................$326,693,800,000
CONNECTICUT........$284,357,400,000
LOUISIANA..............$263,094,200,000
OREGON..................$250,401,900,000
SOUTH CAROLINA.$245,082,800,000
ALABAMA................$229,939,200,000
KENTUCKY...............$213,734,600,000
OKLAHOMA.............$206,139,300,000
IOWA........................$194,038,500,000
UTAH........................$187,415,700,000
NEVADA...................$176,861,800,000
KANSAS...................$172,358,400,000
DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA...$145,475,700,000
ARKANSAS..............$132,438,300,000
NEBRASKA..............$126,321,900,000
MISSISSIPPI............$118,263,000,000
NEW MEXICO..........$103,814,000,000
HAWAII......................$96,831,500,000
NEW HAMPSHIRE....$88,147,300,000
IDAHO........................$80,446,200,000
WEST VIRGINIA .......$78,255,800,000
DELAWARE................$75,216,300,000
MAINE........................$67,137,900,000
RHODE ISLAND.........$63,241,900,000
NORTH DAKOTA........$57,031,500,000
ALASKA......................$55,494,600,000
SOUTH DAKOTA.........$53,044,100,000
MONTANA..................$51,932,700,000
WYOMING..................$39,787,600,000
VERMONT...................$34,611,700,000

Last edited by the resident09; 03-07-2021 at 10:03 PM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > World

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top