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View Poll Results: Who do you support?
Palestine 58 28.16%
Israel 148 71.84%
Voters: 206. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-14-2023, 09:20 AM
 
7,242 posts, read 4,556,554 times
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Where is the USA option?
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Old 10-14-2023, 09:30 AM
 
Location: rural south west UK
5,410 posts, read 3,607,595 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy234 View Post
No-one supports Hamas. What we are saying is that you can't justify the killing of innocent Palestinians because of Hamas anymore than you can justify the killing of innocent American civilians when the US government commits atrocities. I don't see Hamas being defeated from this if all Israel do is commit the very atrocities that feeds their very reason to exist. It is clear the status quo has caused this to bubble up over the years meaning things have to change permanently and we need a peace agreement between both sides. One where the dignity of both sides is respected. One where Hamas is rejected by the people and ousted.
The Palestinians are too afraid of Hamas to reject them, even if Hamas ceased to exist another terror group would simply take its place.
there was a 2 state solution proposed but Hamas rejected it, all they want is to murder every Jew in Israel that is what they exist for.
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Old 10-14-2023, 09:32 AM
 
711 posts, read 295,457 times
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Originally Posted by Arya Stark View Post
Where is the USA option?
Why would there be a USA option? Every US peace proposal in the middle east has eventually failed, the only success is at least having some Arab nations normalize relations with Israel. Otherwise this is something that Israel/Palestine have to work out.
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Old 10-14-2023, 09:34 AM
 
711 posts, read 295,457 times
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Originally Posted by bigpaul View Post
there was a 2 state solution proposed but Hamas rejected it, all they want is to murder every Jew in Israel that is what they exist for.
You are correct. Actually more Israeli's are in favor of a 2 state solution than Palestinians. Actually the 2-state solution should include Jordan land, since historical Palestine includes parts of current Jordan. No one seems to want to talk about that however.
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Old 10-14-2023, 09:40 AM
 
711 posts, read 295,457 times
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Originally Posted by bigpaul View Post
The Palestinians are too afraid of Hamas to reject them, even if Hamas ceased to exist another terror group would simply take its place.
Also to add, Hamas chased out the secular and more moderate (relatively speaking) Fatah Palestinian ruling party back in 2007 by force of arms. Fatah isn't perfect but was a body that was willing to negotiate with Israel. Palestinians it seems, when they aren't busy killing Israeli's, they are killing each other.
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Old 10-14-2023, 09:45 AM
 
Location: Toronto
15,102 posts, read 15,893,034 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpaul View Post
civilians are never legitimate targets- tell that to Hamas.
I hope the IDF kill every member of that organisation.
what Hamas did was commit crimes against humanity, they didnt just kill a few soldiers but they murdered over a thousand men, women and children including babies, and who takes hostages except terrorists, they use their own civilians as human shields. I dont understand people who support these sorts of activities.
I don't think anyone who has a heart would say they support what Hamas did. On the other hand, killing thousands of innocent Palestinians isn't on any sort of moral high ground. Cutting citizens off necessities of life is cruel behaviour. I'm all for holding Hamas accountable but there are other ways of doing it than the route being taken.
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Old 10-14-2023, 09:50 AM
 
Location: rural south west UK
5,410 posts, read 3,607,595 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
I don't think anyone who has a heart would say they support what Hamas did. On the other hand, killing thousands of innocent Palestinians isn't on any sort of moral high ground. Cutting citizens off necessities of life is cruel behaviour. I'm all for holding Hamas accountable but there are other ways of doing it than the route being taken.
The problem with that is that Hamas is hiding amongst the civilian population so unless all the civilians evacuate there is going to be a large loss of life, you cant save civilians if your enemy is hiding amongst them.
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Old 10-14-2023, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Toronto
15,102 posts, read 15,893,034 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpaul View Post
The problem with that is that Hamas is hiding amongst the civilian population so unless all the civilians evacuate there is going to be a large loss of life, you cant save civilians if your enemy is hiding amongst them.
I get that which means intelligence, strategic bombing and yes even going in. Innocent people will get killed but it is a better way than cutting millions of innocent people off of necessities of life and bombing them to oblivion. Have you seen the decimation of gaza? Would it be acceptable to you that 2 million lives are lost for this?
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Old 10-14-2023, 10:22 AM
 
8,502 posts, read 3,347,306 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EveryLady View Post
Good to see you didn't make a neutral or I don't know option. Reality is people have to take sides whether they want to or not. That's just the nature of a human conflict that has no clean solution and does not end. Me, I chose Israel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
The choice could be for peace, non-violence, compromise, community.
In a situation this intrinsically complicated, that choice comes to not exist. In theory perhaps, in the elaborately detailed proposals various governments made. In reality, not. For example, the Israeli left has largely disintegrated while organizations like Hamas have no difficulty controlling a populations in essence putting it into a suicide mission.

It's very possible to empathize with the people involved. To intellectually grasp the rights and the wrongs. Still at some point real involvement is to know there is no solution. Those who try for neutrality are left without a 'tribe.' In the end, most capitulate to a choice. That this and the resulting polarization happens is sobering but it is how mankind still processes conflict.

The only 'solution' at this point is to separate the populations, have the world accept the new refugees - really accept them not just set up camps.

Egypt dealt with its internal 'Palestinian problem' by refusing them citizenship and other rights. Over time the Palestinians have been marrying to obtain a better life for their children effectively merging into Egyptian society. That won't happen with Israel. And Egypt does not want - cannot easily so integrate - another 2 million Palestinians. Some perhaps, not 2 million.

Practically speaking, it is the Gaza Palestinians who need to move and the larger community accept them. Israel will control the territory.

Last edited by EveryLady; 10-14-2023 at 10:51 AM..
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Old 10-14-2023, 11:24 AM
 
22,243 posts, read 19,245,773 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpaul View Post
The Palestinians are too afraid of Hamas to reject them, even if Hamas ceased to exist another terror group would simply take its place.
there was a 2 state solution proposed but Hamas rejected it, all they want is to murder every Jew in Israel that is what they exist for.
exactly.
the ideology of Hamas is genocide of all Jews.

if someone supports Hamas, then that is what they are supporting.
Hamas has rejected numerous 2-state solutions for the very reason that the only solution they will accept is genocide of all Jews.

if someone is not aware of that, and that the ideology of Hamas is to destroy all the Jews
then they are woefully ignorant.

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 10-14-2023 at 11:35 AM..
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