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View Poll Results: Who do you support?
Palestine 58 28.16%
Israel 148 71.84%
Voters: 206. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-15-2023, 06:07 AM
 
7,855 posts, read 10,295,464 times
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What occurred last weekend was beyond the pale and no country on earth would turn the other cheek , I do not agree with the settlements building on Arab land but any referral to it is a form of qualified condemnation of the atrocities carried out by Hamas last weekend ,the details are truly shocking

Absolutely other nations can engage with Israel in a frank manner about illegal settlements in the West Bank but right now , the actions by Israel are absolutely necessary, they can’t just go door to door asking if any Hamas fighters are home , it’s hellish for innocent Palestinians but so was Dresden for innocent Germans, what happened last weekend would prompt the same reaction from any country
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Old 10-15-2023, 06:16 AM
 
7,855 posts, read 10,295,464 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall Traveler View Post
I have several Christian friends and family that say the bible commands them to support Israel.

I think the creation of Israel was a mistake but now they've been there for 75 years and developed a great nation. They do have a right to defend themselves against enemies that want to destroy them.

Not sure what can be done to make peace but I'm open to anything that would work. I wouldn't mind if we invited all the Jews in Israel to come to the USA, it's obvious that they're capable of developing a great society. I would not invite the Palestinians, even the other Arab nations don't want them and after this latest stunt, it's obvious why.
Countless nations at the start involved one set of peoples screwing over another , eventually a settlement must be reached or endless conflict is the result , a Mandela has not emerged from the Palestinian side and as such no non hardline Israeli has emerged in over twenty years in Israel, Israel must stop settlement building but you can’t expect them to withdraw to a level which would make Jews a minority, the security risk is off the scale and no country is as security conscious as Israel for obvious historical reasons
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Old 10-15-2023, 06:17 AM
 
Location: rural south west UK
5,410 posts, read 3,607,595 times
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such an attack as happened last weekend cannot go unpunished, it was horrendous and showed a contempt for human life, it was war crimes of the worst kind similar to those of the Nazis and on the same level.
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Old 10-15-2023, 06:21 AM
 
Location: Taipei
8,870 posts, read 8,454,383 times
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The pro-Hamas protests and antisemitism in the West are absolutely repugnant. The fact that Jewish schools had to suspend Europe and North America because of the conflict is intolerable. This is 2023 not 1933. The West really have completely failed assimilating Arabs.
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Old 10-15-2023, 06:30 AM
 
7,855 posts, read 10,295,464 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
The pro-Hamas protests and antisemitism in the West are absolutely repugnant. The fact that Jewish schools had to suspend Europe and North America because of the conflict is intolerable. This is 2023 not 1933. The West really have completely failed assimilating Arabs.
The source of much of the anti Israeli sentiment in Ireland is actually not down to Muslim immigration for the most part, we have a massively disproportionate level of Marxist and activists who are given a huge media exposure by our extremely left wing media , these Marxist politicians and activists view attacking Israel as a proxy for attacking capitalism itself and have made the conflict central to their entire political mission for decades ( long before any Muslim immigration occurred) , the Palestinians represent the victims of capitalism in their eyes , the same leftists are front and centre in the gender ideology debate , it would be funny were it not so serious as Israel is the only country in the Middle East which has any tolerance for gay people etc

The average Irish person is not anti Israeli , let me make this clear , most don’t have strong opinions on far away conflicts , our wretched media however amplifies the views of fringe politicians and activist Marxist groups
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Old 10-15-2023, 08:44 AM
 
711 posts, read 295,457 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpaul View Post
such an attack as happened last weekend cannot go unpunished, it was horrendous and showed a contempt for human life, it was war crimes of the worst kind similar to those of the Nazis and on the same level.
The moral equivalence that some here are posting is terrible. The "yes the terrorist attack against Israel is bad but Israel has been persecuting Palestinians for decades...". "Israel is an apartheid state"..."Israel is bombing Palestinians...". They aren't directly saying it (well some are), but the subtle inference is noted - Israel deserved to have it's citizens killed in such a brutal manner, burning alive, decapitation of woman and children, kidnapping women, parading dead bodies in the street, holding it's own citizens captive to act as human shields.

We've had some justify, or at least excuse, the holocaust in other forums as well "well Canadian and American soldiers committed atrocities also...". Last time I checked, no Canadian soldiers were making lampshades out of the corpses of 6 millions Jews.

Anyways there is no moral equivalency to an organization who's sole purpose of existence is to kill Jews. There is no appeasement here. They don't care about peace discussions, open borders, humanatarian aid, end to Palestinian poverty, a 2 state solution, any of that. The Hamas Charter, part of there constitution, I posted earlier. They simply want to kill all Jews.

Peace and Palestinian rights? Yeah we can talk about all that, Israel need to adapt another way to live with Palestinians. But that can only be done once Hamas is destroyed. Not the citizens of Gaza, but Hamas terrorists. These aren't a ragtag group, they govern Gaza, every aspect of daily life there, and are well trained and well supplied with weapons by Iran. There is no easy or clean way to do that, particularly with Hamas using it's own citizens as human shields, preventing their evacuation, using them as political pawns. But it must be done.
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Old 10-15-2023, 09:34 AM
 
22,243 posts, read 19,245,773 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpaul View Post
such an attack as happened last weekend cannot go unpunished, it was horrendous and showed a contempt for human life, it was war crimes of the worst kind similar to those of the Nazis and on the same level.
a question often discussed is "how could ordinary people let the Nazis get away with what they did for so long and not stop it."

we are seeing the very same mindset right now towards the Hamas terrorist government. Making excuses for Hamas, saying they are justified, refusing to accept the atrocities, blaming the Jews for "making it up" and "bringing it upon themself" and flat out supporting an ideology whose sole imperative is to kill all Jews.

So supporting Hamas in this moment everyone who is, are the "ordinary people" who supported the Nazi movement. It is the identical mindset.
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Old 10-15-2023, 11:26 AM
 
15,984 posts, read 7,044,200 times
Reputation: 8559
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
The pro-Hamas protests and antisemitism in the West are absolutely repugnant. The fact that Jewish schools had to suspend Europe and North America because of the conflict is intolerable. This is 2023 not 1933. The West really have completely failed assimilating Arabs.
Condemning the state of Israel’s attempt and intention to annihilate the people Palatine is not the same as supporting Hamas or the Nazis. That is a lie and is propaganda. There is such a thing as proportional retaliation. Israel should be condemned for this total devastation and its acts of oppression and illegal settlements and expansion.
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Old 10-15-2023, 11:38 AM
 
22,243 posts, read 19,245,773 times
Reputation: 18338
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
Condemning the state of Israel’s attempt and intention to annihilate the people Palatine is not the same as supporting Hamas or the Nazis. That is a lie and is propaganda. There is such a thing as proportional retaliation. Israel should be condemned for this total devastation and its acts of oppression and illegal settlements and expansion.
this is what support for Hamas looks like and sounds like.
and it is chilling.

this is what the ordinary people said
when they supported the Nazis and allowed the unbridled atrocities to go unchecked.

identical.

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 10-15-2023 at 11:47 AM..
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Old 10-15-2023, 11:56 AM
 
22,243 posts, read 19,245,773 times
Reputation: 18338
put yourself as an ordinary citizen during the Nazi regime in power.
a group has said "we need to take out Nazi leaders" to end the atrocities.

are you going to see how that is a wise idea
or are you going to object and protect the Nazi leaders.


that is the conversation.
and it is deeply disturbing how many are saying protect the Nazi leaders, protect Hamas.
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